How Strategy Directly Impacts Online Effectiveness

Today we're going to talk about how strategy directly impacts your online effectiveness. Are you ready? Because it's time.

You're listening to the Church Digital Sidekick Podcast, part of the TCD Podcast Network.

Hey heroes, my name is Tom Pounder and this is the Church Digital Sidekick Podcast. This is a podcast where I bring in ministry leaders and we talk about how you can do ministry more effectively in this very digital and online world. And I'm really excited to have my friend Sly King back on. Sly is a great online minister and he's been doing it for a really long time. And today we talk about a variety of different things. We always have to talk about college football when Sly and I get together and some other things, but we ultimately talk about strategy and online effectiveness. Now, listen, Sly and I have been doing online ministry for a number of years. And early on in the time, you could probably just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and say, hey, we've got an online ministry. Let's just go. But now as we're growing in our online effectiveness and we're growing in online ministry opportunities. What kind of strategy do you need to have? And how can you be a little bit more strategic? What does it look like for you and your church and ministry? That's what Sly and I talk about today. So I really hope that you enjoy this conversation. But before we do that, I just want to highlight something that we're doing at The Church Digital right now. We have one... bunch of new podcasts that are being released right now. So if you go to thechurch.digital, you can check out all the different podcasts from a variety of different people. And it's just great to listen to different voices here about digital stuff, but also life stuff. So check out that with the Church Digital Podcast Network. But also, we're offering more coaching and cohorts. So if you go to the equipping page at thechurch.digital, you can find out different cohorts for digital ministry, digital ministry, metaverse ministry that's right we've got people who are gonna be talking and coaching people through the metaverse so it's gonna be a really exciting time at the church digital so make sure you hit up the church dot digital and get out different coaching opportunities and also learn and discover more podcast opportunities there all right are you ready to listen to sly and I talk good well I hope you are because we're getting ready here's the interview talking about strategy and online effectiveness with sly king All right, with me right now is Sly King. Sly, how are you, man?

Tom, I am well. Good to see you. Good to talk to you, man. I know it's been a while. I mean, what we've had Thanksgiving wrapped into Christmas into a new year.

uh all in between man so good to see you it is good to see you as well of course i follow you uh religiously on social media you are a twitter man and so i i am up to date on all the things uh that was happening in your world i'm gonna hit on one of those in a second but before we do that just for anybody who's not heard you on my podcast before do not follow you on uh social media already uh give a little background about uh who you are and what you do

sure so tom you know i honestly always enjoy first and foremost being on your podcast so thank you so much for having me i have been doing social media and in those areas of that part of where it deals with online and all those things for For about nine or 10 years now and I'm actually in Birmingham, Alabama at the worship center Christian Church and I manage all of our social media lead everything as relates to our online campus. i'm usually the face of that with others and also managing and running everything as relates to what we're doing all things with our APP and other areas of digital so. a lot of those things that i've been doing for quite some time and i've seen the moves and and all the things of algorithms if you will that we've all been dealing with but yeah so i i've been in this digital space and living in this world for for many years but really reaching people for what we are called to do it's so important. And I think that this is the space that has so much bandwidth and so many possibilities. So yeah, that's a little bit about that. Outside of that, of course, I have also been in the world of radio media for 15, almost 16 years now. So I've been doing radio. And so I have the multi hats that I wear, but That's a little bit about me. And so for those of you that are new to the podcast and never knew who I was or whatever, that's me.

Yeah. And I love talking to you, Sly, too, because, again, there's a lot of online ministers that have come in the fold the past two or three years because of COVID and the necessity there. But you've been well in this space long before COVID. And you were always one who was very welcoming to me as I was starting in this. And you talked with me and we would bounce ideas off each other. So I've always appreciated you.

and your uh you being a great resource for me so i i and likewise tom i i will tell you and i'll sell this to anybody that's listening you need to connect with people that you can bounce stuff off of i don't think i know it all and i think that when you're able to have these conversations and talk with people that are in that same space it helps you so you all can get into a real groove of just kind of saying okay well i may need to try that or yeah you know what i didn't think about that and honestly just to tell you that's what i miss about the conferences because some of the best brainstorming sessions i had were at conferences where we would do a whiteboard session with all of the speakers that were not a part of what was happening in the main room we were just in there just brainstorming and it was absolutely phenomenal because you're bouncing ideas and all these things so i love the opportunity and that's what's so great about what we do yeah

I agree completely. And again, I love this online community because they are online ministers have been some of the friendliest people I've known and most helpful people. And you're one of those guys. So, well, Sly, I did see you over the holidays. This is going to lead into our topic. So it's not a distraction. This is actually leading into our topic. um but i saw you on social media uh and you were at the you are for anybody who doesn't know uh sly is a big auburn tigers fan and he was at the auburn bowl game so tell me about that experience well listen first of all the new stadium here in birmingham is phenomenal

um it is absolutely a great stadium i had the great experience of having the studio uh club access and so food and all that stuff it was amazing i was sitting on the 50 and a lot of times people say okay well sitting low like row a okay to put it in perspective like that's where I am, and then, okay, there is the team. And that spot is not bad. The only problem is, depending on the stadium, it makes it kind of difficult to see. And Auburn, in their stadium, if you sit on the 50, it's worse, because the hedges and stuff, it's horrible. But literally being at the game, enjoyed it. Besides the outcome, okay, the outcome obviously was not what I wanted, but the experience, it was great. Our crazy weather, you know, you just didn't know how to dress for the game. You just didn't know. I mean, seriously, you didn't know. I mean, the sun came out, it got hot. It was like, okay, wait a minute, what's going on? And we're in December. But it was great. It was a great game and a lot of great time that was had. And so a lot of good fun.

Yeah, as you and I have talked before, again, you know, I'm a Penn State guy. You're an Auburn guy. They played this year in Penn State one. They'll play next year down in Auburn. So that'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Let me know if you're coming. Let me know if you're coming, Tom. We may have to put that on the calendar and just say, you know what, we're going to come and just go to the game. And, you know, I'm fine with you wearing your Nittany Lion stuff. That's fine. Just come on down to Jordan-Hare and have some fun.

yeah that's a legendary stadium too i mean so i mean that's a i've been to penn state games before but i've never been there that that would actually be a cool thing so okay we'll talk about that later but we got we have to do that we have to do that take you to my old stomping grounds when i was in school yeah we'll get into that great well okay so okay let's continue this thing about college football because it does again lead into our conversation you and i were talking uh before we got on uh about the transfer portal how you know the transfer portal has changed everything uh on in college football and if anybody doesn't know the transfer portal uh up until a few like was it last year or two years ago about two years ago yeah okay that that when college students could transfer they had to sit out a year some of them they had to sit out two years but it was at least a year they had to sit out before they could play in that new thing but now that the transfer portal has changed where a kid can go from auburn one year and then be a starter on penn state the very next year there's no change so how have you seen that impact college football

You know, I think, again, with the high expectations for coaches now, right? I mean, what coaches make, clearly, Tom, we're in the wrong business, okay? Coaches are making, you know, astronomical money, five, six million dollars, you know, and that's in the, depending on what kind of coach, but we're just talking about a lot of money. So with the large amount of money that is being made, the expectations from fans and everybody else is, you got to win now. and it's not the mentality of bring in the right people do the right recruiting set up the right system do everything you need to do to plan and build a good program and that's the problem the expectations are microwave driven and you you get hired tomorrow and the expectation is all right next season you're gonna win all your games and we need to be talking about being in the in the playoffs and the level of really understanding what it takes to build something great is not sometimes really understood and and it's amazing because i see that even with auburn fans i've seen it because i see a lot of message board stuff and i'm going you guys understand what it takes to really create something great and that's getting the culture change that's doing all these things you got to come in and do So the transfer portal has opened up the door for schools to change their entire roster and losing a player, getting a player from anywhere else. And I think that's helped the coaches. It's helped them get things that are missing that they didn't get in the recruiting phase. But again, it's changed everything. And I think when you look at what the expectations are, the win now mentality is where everybody is. And here's the thing about it. Everybody is not going to win. There's only one national championship.

there's only one you know so it's the expectation is is very hot but it's a very much driven we got to win it now we got to have it right now and that's where we are yeah everyone's chasing like the alabamas the the georgias even the ohio states of the world and they're trying to figure out how they can do that okay so now let's take a pivot here and move this into our frame of reference here about online ministry because of that win now culture in college football I think there was a win now movement in online ministry in the sense of everyone just thinks that once you get online, you're going to get thousands of people coming to your church. You're going to get all these things done. And if it doesn't happen immediately, then there's issues. And so how would you kind of combat that? How have you seen that in your environment? And then what would you say to encourage people?

i think what you said is so key is there are a lot of people we're going to back into this right you know i've we've been in the online space pretty much since i when i started going to the church before i was even working there and so it's not new territory the problem was we had people that reached out to me and people who you know finally realized oh online is important And then they wanted, I got to have this instantly. So when is your service? When are you trying to do this? Sunday? Yeah, so we got a problem. So they didn't have what they needed, all these things. And the challenge was wanting to have the instant success of, OK, we go online. Everybody should watch us. That's not the case. And that's honestly not the case, especially now, because it is a very saturated place because everybody is online streaming something. And so my encouragement to you is create a plan. You know, we talk about coaches and programs and the ones that do well. they have a very high driven plan that they've derived from their culture and everything that they do, it is evident in how they move with what they're doing online. One of the things that I've always said about online is you have to be able to take what you're doing in the physical building and replicate that in the digital space and how you're reaching your people and change the methods but keep the same theme and the same mission goal and the priority that you have so if you create the plan you build it right You got to find out what you need, whether it's the equipment you need, the people you need, all the resources that are necessary and understand it's going to take some time and find out what your target is. You know, you got to talk to your people, talk to your pastors, talk to the leaders and find out, OK, where do we need to really focus our energy? You know, you can't do everything. So maybe it's just. on facebook or maybe it's just on youtube or maybe it's just on church online whatever that may be create a plan and don't get overwhelmed right i mean because the easy thing tom for many people to do is what look at the churches and they go online they got 20 000 people watching their service They've been doing that for a while. They have a lot of things that have been going on behind the scenes, too, that have made that available for them to have that success. So don't get caught up in all the other stuff. Focus on improving, creating a strategic plan to say, this is where we're going to start. Here's what we need to do to make it happen. And let them know if they challenge you and said, hey, listen, you need to create an online space. Well, what are the resources you need to have that happen? And now you've got to ask for those resources in order to achieve the goals that they've set out for you.

No, you're right on on this. And because I think a lot of times, you know, when COVID first hit and everybody had to go online, this happened for us. We'd been online for a few years before COVID hit and our numbers spiked immediately. And we had a few weeks of just really outrageously high numbers. And we're like, this is awesome. Partly because nobody was in the church building to experience church in person. But then what ended up happening was they slowly moved. And then Easter came and then we had another big spike and then you slowly. And one of the things that we had to learn is like it was easy to get caught up in those numbers and look, wow, look at all these people who are coming online. This is amazing. But it wasn't what's the word I'm looking for? It just wasn't replicable. because we didn't have the systems in place to maintain that. And ultimately, what we had to do is we had to find a bottom line or baseline. What was the baseline? Who are really the people who are coming? And we had to have the right system set up in place. And I think a lot of churches saw that initial bump up high bump up and like, okay, we can reach 1000 people. We can reach 600 people, even though they're a church of 200 people or something like that. you know and then then they get discouraged when the numbers are coming down and again that pressure to say why can't i get back up to 600 why can't i be there if you don't have the right systems in place and the right processes in place and the strategy in place you're not going to be able to implement that right and what you just said is something i want to jump right into because one of the elements that even i had discussions with our you know team was

You know, when I'm turning in reports, you know, again, like you said, having systems, I do reports every week, every week on numbers across all platforms and everything, social media, all of that. But the reality is everybody saw a spike and everybody saw a decline. it was across the board in church online, everybody. And if you don't have the correct systems where you've created those things, how are you connecting with people? That's why I said in the very beginning, what are you doing in your physical building? Take your mindset and think about, okay, people walk in the door of the church, Maybe you're not greeting them anymore. Maybe it's a QR code, whatever you're doing, but they have some connection point that they can actually connect with the church, whether they're texting, whether they're doing something that gives them access to a connect card or whatever. So now you've got to reshape that and say, okay, so now I need to create that for online. I got to create that. So now you have a way of connecting with people that when you had the spike, those people had a way to connect with the ministry. And then you could begin to start funneling them to where you want them to go. What do you want them to connect and do after you get their information? What's the next step for them? you know and so once you start creating that format in that system when somebody joins you online their first time guest what do they do we have a way that they can text if you're a first-time guest to our number and they get an immediate prompt they fill out some information we connect with them in that space so you've got to find all those things you need so when you do have those spikes and when you have people in general You got a way to capture that. It's like when you go to any website or anything we do that asks for information, they ask you what for, an email address or a phone number so they can have access to you to send you things or whatever so they can connect with you. So you've got to build that in place so that when these ebbs and flows, which happen all the time, it's not anything new. We saw the spike, the first part of it. And one of the challenges, Tom, too, that many people dealt with in this space was the spike because it was it was either new to the ministry or that was the only option they had and then everybody started to move into this fatigue because work school i mean imagine you're a parent who is on Zoom most of the day. Your kids are in the other room, they're doing their stuff virtually and you're trying to help them in that space. And then you got to turn around on Sunday and you have to log in again virtually. At some point it begins to be, you know, be fatigue. And that's the big challenge that I think many saw. And one other thing, and I'll say this because I think it's relevant. One of the things that I think that many did not want to wrestle with was because if you really start digging into numbers, and this is maybe for another podcast, when you start really digging into numbers, do you want to pay attention to your watch time? Do you want to see when people are really logging off and logging in? Are you willing to make the adjustments because of what you see? You may say, oh, man, we're going to worship for 30 minutes, where you're losing people. Well, you can't say, well, they should love the Lord. No, you've got to make adjustments. And we're in that space in that time now where the adjustments, the data is going to show you. It's going to show you. I see it every week. It's like, okay, I know people have figured out, they know kind of when to log in because they want to get the latter part of worship and get the word. It's consistent. So again, we have to be willing to look at all this, but the bottom line is you've got to create those things in place so that when you do have people come in, and you're able to get consistency now people have a connection point with your church and they have a next step phase no matter whether they are a new believer rededicating their life to christ first time guest whatever you have a way to connect with them and then you need the teams or the system in place that will be able to continue to communicate with them after sunday because sunday is not it know so yeah okay so i just i just made a mental of not a mental though i wrote down on a piece of paper uh deep dive in the numbers with sly king so that's a future podcast because yeah on something so good but that would take us down a whole nother rabbit hole it would it would and i didn't want to i wanted to mention it but i didn't want to dig too deep into it because it is a conversation that you know and i and i just to be honest i said this um during a time that maybe during the pandemic or whatever but i said do we really want to look at the numbers and do we really want to pay attention to what they're saying yeah because that's that's a big part of what you're doing but i think the big picture of all this is whether you are new or whether you've been online for many many years Regardless of what happens, every person that walks through that digital door of your church, there has to be some type of assimilation process. And you have to figure out what that is. And whether it's the same as what you did in the physical building, you've got to find a way to replicate that digitally and find a way to make it work. And there's some great systems out here that will help you really do that where you feel like, OK, I don't have to build this from the ground up. There are some things out there that really help you.

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. That's why I wanted to talk to you about that real quick because some people are a little hesitant about having people fill out the connection card in some ways on the online people or making them do it. But here's the deal. You said this. Every website that you go on, every time you order something on Amazon or a store like... um what any any online store they make you fill out your they make you create a username and password in order and then they send you a bunch of stuff and here's the deal the reality is people are familiar with that they know that's the expectation and we just have to make that the expectation at church too And we're again, fill out this connection card. Give us your information. If you don't want to continue to get information from us, you can hit stop or you can unsubscribe to it. We do it all the time. I actually just went through a huge purge of email unsubscribing from things that I've subscribed to over Christmas. And I just unsubscribed a whole bunch of stuff. People can unsubscribe if they want to, but we have to find a way to capture their information so we can get them to take that next step. Whatever that is.

Absolutely. And I think one of the things that I have said this, and if anybody's heard me say this, I probably said it on your podcast. I've talked about it at conferences. One of the things that I struggle with, with how we are in this space, especially the church, is what you just said. The way we get information, the way we access things that we do on a daily basis, no matter what it is, we do that in the world realm. When we get to the church, we expect it to be totally different. Now, the big whole conundrum in all this is you're trying to reach people that are either in the church, out of the church, or whatever, and how do you get information? How do they get information? Why would you try to reinvent the wheel on communicating? we've learned some of the greatest things too from paying attention to what happens in some of these big fortune 500 companies and how they do things and we said that's a good idea maybe we can use some of that knowledge to do something in the church space you don't have to reinvent that like tom said they can unsubscribe you know we don't have to get into how often you send things but the reality is get information that exact same way so why would you change any of that the tool that everybody has and you you know you you some of you will you know you leave your mask for your phone i mean your phone is with you on a regular basis this is how people get information So think about that when you're thinking about connecting with people and how you're reaching people. And you don't have to reinvent that. That's something I think that is one of the gravest errors I think we have is that we say, well, it's a church. We got to do it different. No, no. What are people doing out there? That's very similar. You just shape it and change it to fit for what you're trying to do and create it to make it work.

Yeah, people are very comfortable. I've shared this story a few different times, but again, when COVID hit, my dad had never been on a Zoom call before, and he's in his 70s. He's on Zoom calls still to this day very often, and he's very comfortable with the technology. So we shouldn't be saying, well, people aren't comfortable. No, they are. They're really comfortable. Older generations, especially younger generations, they're very comfortable with the technology. We don't need to reinvent the wheel in order to connect with people. we just need to find that way that works for us again what works for me in my church maybe works differently for your church find what works and then use that absolutely you hit on online fatigue earlier too again people are fatigued i'll just say this you know um again because of different things are happening in our community with snow and uh covid and stuff um we've decided this week that we're going to be doing online youth group uh this week We've been in person for years now. I mean, ever since the initial COVID spike. But now we're back online just for a week. But we've hit a lot of resistance here because kids don't want to be online in this way. What would you say or how would you encourage people who are experiencing online fatigue or going through that process?

You know, I think, Tom, the big challenge of all that is you got to think about how you're delivering what your message is. And I think you have to find a way to be willing to make some changes. You know, it's like anything else. If you are listening to a professor that is in the same monotone, you got to listen for an hour. After a point in time, it just begins to start becoming white noise. So if you are accustomed to doing whatever it is this way, then be willing to make some changes. Change it up. Have some fun with the kids. Challenge them. Maybe have them come up with something fun that they want to do, something that they all can involve themselves in. And make it engaging. You don't want to make it a one-way street. Because if you're making it a one-way street, all they're sitting there doing is trying to listen to what you're saying without any engagement. but give them something challenging maybe it's you know creating some type of package or thing that you got to send home to them that they have to sit there and do I mean, I remember our kids had something that they were doing for something around the holidays and it was virtual. But the thing was, they signed up for it and they received in the mail all the stuff that they had to do. And on the actual Zoom call, if you will, they were all participating in doing that. They didn't get the chance to show what they were working on. so you're engaging them you're making them be a part of it and i think that there are different creative ways you may be able to do some things um that you all can come up with that might work um you know people are going to either participate or not you won't be able to really control that but i think if you find a way to get them you know to have buy-in because most of the time that people as we like to say put some skin in the game if people have a little skin in the game they feel more apt to participate yeah and that's just really where you have to kind of be creative uh be willing to make adjustments if you're whatever you're doing was an hour maybe you need to shorten that down to 30 minutes yeah you know i mean be willing to do that try to find a way to concise all that down and don't think well they got to get all this stuff stop doing that just stop. You got to be willing to make the changes and understand that we live in a different era. This is a different time. We were talking about football a moment ago. This is a different time of football compared to when I was playing. It's all changed. So if that's changed and everything else has evolved, we have to be willing to say, okay, maybe we need to adjust this stuff, pull back here, maybe insert something different here and be willing to step out of the box. Just be willing to try something different that you haven't done. Because here's the thing. That's what we all do. I had a great conversation with somebody at a conference and said, man, we're not all experts. We're just trying to figure this thing out. And there's nothing wrong with it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You go back, you try something different. So don't be so caught up in it's got to be perfect.

I like what you just said there, because I think we get caught up in saying, OK, kids don't want to do Zoom meetings anymore. They don't want to do it. Well, that's maybe not the case. Maybe they do want to do Zoom meetings. It's just the meetings that we're providing are not meeting their needs because let's just be honest, they'll get on their phone and FaceTime for an hour. And that's that's a Zoom meeting.

I mean, yeah, right. But the content. is the bigger challenge, right? The content is the bigger challenge. And you've got to find a way to change that. One of the things that our youth did, it was fun. They did, I forgot what they did, similar to Hollywood Squares, but they did something, but it was fun. The kids had a blast. They had a blast and they were more focused. The content was the king of all of that, right? You're not, you're worried about, well, they don't want to, well, maybe what you're doing, just to be honest with you, is a little boring. And I know that's going to rub some people. No, listen, the reality is those things can be boring. Okay. You got to find a way to spice it up. You got to find a way to make some changes and understand that. Yeah. The content is what is the challenge. They don't mind being on, but what you're doing, they don't want to be honest sitting down. You talking about, we're going to talk about how to be better kids in school. God, nobody's logging in. But the only people that are going to log in as a mom and dad and like, no, you logged in because you're in right no you sitting there logging in right there and they sitting right next to him like no you need to listen everybody else is like no i'm not doing it you know so that's where and i think too if you challenge them to even invite their friends right you know give them some type of challenge you know maybe there's some incentive if you invite three or four people you know you'll get a free something that you can send to them outside of the box think outside of the box that way it becomes where they have you know skin in the game and okay well i invited five people how many did you bite okay well guess what you invited the most people here is what we have for you boom the next time we all do something what happens everybody's like no i want to win because they got you know they got a 50 gift card whatever it is you know Think like that, you know, so.

No, I love it. And again, it all boils down to strategy and it all boils down to the processes and systems that you have in place here. Again, if you were still doing online ministry the way you were when you first started. uh you would not be effective today you have evolved you have changed you've adapted if you were doing ministry the same way that you were doing it when covet first hit you probably want to be as effective you have to constantly evaluate and look at look at what's working look at what's not working and change and adapt to it Because again, with these college coaches, if they're not involved in the transfer portal, then they're going to miss out on really good opportunities. It's changed. The way the game is played has changed. We have to adapt when we're doing online ministry as well.

Yep, absolutely. And that's so important, Tom. every time i think about these things that we're in now i think for me more so now than ever it's we are not going back to church as usual and i think we have to be willing to say you know what maybe these shorter messages have more validity than you worrying about teaching something for an hour maybe shorter worship fits better because of that may reach people in a better way than it being something that people tune out on after a certain point. Like, I'm almost willing to bet you there are some people who are not sitting right in front of their laptop, phone, or tablet during worship. I'm not saying everybody, but there's a percentage of people who have checked out to go do something else and they come back. So we got to be willing to understand that and not be offensive, not be offended. Let me just say that. to all of you that are in the position whether you're in leadership or whatever don't be offended when people say hey they're not that's not connecting with people well they should there's no reason why no it's not okay we're in a different space now we got to be willing to say we got to make changes and guess what the places that we go buy things from and do they make changes all the time because they realize that is not working And so they find those things that they know are working, they adjust them, they tweak them, they change them. And that's where we are. So I think that that's a big part of it and understand that you don't need to be offended by it. Just understand, okay, how flexible are we going to be to make these changes and make some adjustments to fit for what we're trying to do?

Yeah. Sly, this has been awesome. This has been great chatting with you about this. Any final thoughts that you would share about this?

Yeah, I think the bigger thing, Tom, and thank you again, is we have to be willing to understand that just because you turn on a stream for your service, that's not it. It goes further beyond that. You have to create an assimilation process. Where do you want people to go? The people that watch your service Put yourself in the shoes of somebody who is an unbeliever or maybe walked away from church, does not matter. What experience do you want them to have and where do you want that individual to go as they connect with your ministry? Doesn't matter where they live, but how do you want them to connect with your ministry? from just watching on Sunday to engaging and being a part of what happens in the digital space throughout the week. And so the strategy and the planning is so important because if somebody was saved right now at your church, in the building, gave their life to Christ, they have a next step. So it goes the same way for the people who are online, they also have a next step, but you've got to create what that is going to look like and don't get overwhelmed just understand the importance of creating those things and how key that is to you having those successes that you want to have and that's just really where it's all right if you if you build it you know the whole thing of saying they will come but if you build it right it will absolutely work and be effective to what you're trying to accomplish

Yeah, that is so true. Your strategy is really important, and it's going to have a huge impact. If you're just throwing things up there and just willy-nilly and doing it just because you were told to do it, you're not going to be as effective as someone who has a clear strategy that's lined up with the church as a whole. It's not a separate strategy. It's a whole comprehensive, whole strategy.

Right, right, right. And that's so important, so important.

So this has been great. I know someone's going to want to connect with you. So how would people connect with you on social media or wherever so that they can ask you questions or follow up with you?

sure and and i'm always open to that you know i don't proclaim to have all the answers and i believe the gospel as many people have said is free you know we are all after reaching christ and reaching people to get them connected to christ and so me helping you i'm just glad to be able to do it so you can email me that's a great way to do that you want to email me and i've had many people tom email me and say hey i have a question so email me s king S-K-I-N-G at theworshipcentercc.org. Okay. Sking at theworshipcentercc.org. Email me or on Instagram or Twitter. It's at I am Sly King. Okay. At I am Sly King. You can reach me there. Say, hey, Sly, I got a question. I want to run something by you or do you have a moment so we can talk? I don't mind. Okay. If I'm available. i will gladly call you gladly talk with you and share whatever it is that i can do to maybe help you because at the end of the day as tom said there may be people that connect with your ministry they may not connect with either one of ours but the bigger picture is if their life is changed and they have a connection where they can get to christ then that is the ultimate win game that's the goal and so i'll just be glad to help you you know if i can in any way

Sly, you're awesome. And for everyone listening, I'll include those links on the show notes. So just if you forgot it or couldn't pay attention, just click on the links. I'll get his email and his Twitter and Instagram on there. I wish I had my Twitter as I am Tom Pounder. I always see people's Twitter handles and I'm like, I wish I would have thought of that or the Tom Pounder, you know? Right, right, right, right, right, right. I just did a TA Pounder. I'm like, I'm so stupid. No, no.

it's all good man but thank you tom i always appreciate it and you know you can have me back anytime man you can always dive into whatever is the the topic of what's on your heart or what you want to get into so i'm always open to that

Well, I already got the next topic. So we'll just have to schedule the time. Sure. Because I would love to do a deep dive with you on numbers and what that looks like. Absolutely. We will do that sooner rather than later. I'll guarantee that.

Yeah. I think that'll be very beneficial to everybody because I know people wanting, what do these numbers mean? It can be overwhelming. So yeah, that's no problem. No, let's do that.

So, all right, Sly, well, have a great day, man. Thanks so much for being with me.

Hey, no problem. You too, Tom.

All right, I love talking with Sly. I really feel like I could talk to Sly for a really long time. He's just a great guy to have. And again, he's been doing ministry for a really long time and he's got a lot of great stories and a lot of great ideas and resources to share. So definitely connect with him if you haven't connected with him before. I'll include all his links in the show notes today. So definitely make sure you connect with him. All right, here's why I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on this. What do you think? What have been your ideas or what have been your... ups and downs in online effectiveness, how has strategy impacted you, definitely hit me up on Twitter, at TAPatterns, my Twitter handle. I'd love for you to do that and share with me and Sly as we continue this conversation online. All right, heroes, well, thanks so much for being with me today. As always, if you enjoyed this podcast or the video, definitely subscribe to it. It's on YouTube or all the other podcast streaming platforms. You can just click subscribe and you can get this every week when we release it on thechurch.digital. All right, heroes. Well, thanks so much for being with me today. I hope you have a great rest of your day. And until next time, have a great one.