Is Digital Ministry Real?

Because that question came up. Um, Dr. Level Up, I'll go ahead and invite you up and we'll just have any questions there. And we had questions earlier that were in regards to how do you help others? Um, your spouse, maybe who doesn't understand this is real ministry or your church outside of digital spaces. How do you have those conversations? So we can answer that.

And then any other questions that you have. Yeah. Um, so I can say that with, when it comes to communion and when it comes to baptism, so we don't, we have not really broached the topic of baptism. I know that there are plenty of digital churches that have, I think the one that I'm most comfortable with and willing to engage with is, uh, so I'm a part of the UMC where a connectional church system means that we have UMCs literally all over the globe. And so I would feel pretty comfortable calling up just about any pastor, any church that's near them and saying like, would you be willing to, to baptize this person? And I'd be on a zoom call with you, um, reading a part of the liturgy or being a part of it as well. That's something that's totally comfortable with me.

Um, and something that I would, I would very much consider, uh, a legitimate methodology, but I do think I would want to think through in the same way we've thought through communion. Um, we took communion very seriously. Whenever we first approached it, we took a while to really even start doing it. What's really important to me when it comes to communion is that I want it to be very clear that we are, uh, you know, we were remembering, but we're also doing the remembering. I want us to be reminded of our part of the membership. And so it was very important to me that I structure our liturgy and our practice together during communion in a way that reminds us of our embodied nature. Um, you know, I, I, I've named it myself, right.

That I don't think that we become disembodied whenever we're on a computer, but I do think there is the temptation to forget our bodies in the midst of it. And so I want to call it out. And so we created an app, um, that pulls up on our website, um, checkpointchurch.com backslash communion. And on that, you have a, uh, a purple button and on that purple button, people can press down on their phones or on their computers. And when they do, they're reminded, right. They're touching it. They're reminded of their bodies.

And then the number at the bottom of the screen begins to go up for however many people are clicking that button. So it's reminding them, this is the present body of Christ in this act of this moment. These are the people who are being remembered in this moment and in this act. And we have a little part of a liturgy that we've written out that just kind of names that reality that names the aspect of our connection over cyberspace. Um, and I even call out some parts that are uniquely different and perhaps better. I'm not going to say it's all better, but there is an interesting, unique aspect to all of us touching the exact same, uh, point in time. Um, we are not only touching the same button, but we're also touching the exact same location on the internet at the exact same moment.

And so I say, that's kind of like, we're all holding hands. It's, it's like we're holding hands in a circle while we observe communion. There is, there is not just tactile nature, but there is an intimate tactile nature in this moment that I think is worth naming. And so we wanted to come up with, uh, uh, we call it an outward invisible sign of the inward and spiritual grace that we experience throughout the act of communion. The liturgy itself, if you're in a Methodist church, it's going to sound very familiar, um, or really, really any, any mainline church is going to have a very similar, um, you know, epiclesis and structure behind their liturgy. But then we just kind of double down on parts of that liturgy and name the nature of what we're doing and how we're connecting and how we're being a part of this moment because we wanted to take it seriously. We also have a subscription box.

So we send out the elements for free to people along with some other goodies, kind of like a loot crate. And so that was another level of like tactile nature. Um, we don't think there's anything necessarily happening like special in the little, you know, mini cups that, that somebody couldn't find something bread-like, something juice-like. Um, there's, there's something divine going on in that act of the epiclesis. So we, you know, don't broach that topic, but we do, we do think that's just another way we can make it that much more intimate, that much more tactile in the way, uh, we share. Uh, yeah, thanks. Thanks for that.

And just to, to go the church digital, we are not trying to solve the answer to baptism and communion. So we understand that people's belief of what happens during communion is different. And we're not trying to say, here's the one right way to do it. People's beliefs in baptism are different. And we are going to trust you and your denomination to work that out in a way that works for you. But what I will say is there are, there are some out there. So there are churches that are in VR and so they participate in VR.

And so you can, you can ask all those questions. Well, if I'm baptized in VR with virtual water, is it a baptism or not a baptism? I'm not answering the question for you. I'm saying the VR churches are answering the question and the people who are, you know, you talk about being a digital native, a person who is a VR native is not going to see the difference between it being physical water and being VR water. They are going to fully feel that it happened to them. They are going to see, and others who were there are going to have seen them have the water on them. So, so just saying there's the one end of it.

And then there's others who would absolutely say never. And one of those would be the ortho, the orthodox churches are going to say no. They're there because it has to be blessed by a priest. It has to be while you're physically present together. It's going to be that level of things. So you're not going to see the orthodox church embracing digital space in any real way and doing communion or baptism or those things. Now, and Druzy, if I get anything wrong here with what Lux is doing, you can correct me.

But Lux with communion, they go through the elements, do all of that. But the person who is at home provides their own elements. And so they go through communion, but you provide your own. I like the subscription thing that you have. So for people who do have, and it needs to be blessed by a priest, you could adopt that approach and say, it comes from us. We send it to you. You participate with us because you can't dispose of it afterwards properly.

It wasn't blessed, any of those things. So you weren't addressing that issue, but that would help for those who have that theology. And then for baptism, they try to, if it's possible, have a pastor that you know and trust nearby that you could go to that could baptize you. If it's not possible, then you can do it with a person who is a Christian in your own household or in a lake or wherever it has. And an important piece is filming it so that if it can happen live, you can do that live. And if it doesn't happen live, you record it and send it in so the community can participate and celebrate with you. So there's ways to address this.

Your theological position in your denomination is going to be where you need to start from. And then from there, you could decide, does this fit or match our theology of what we believe is necessary for it to be efficacious? That's just my fancy word of saying it took effect and or is this actual participation? I'm not answering those. I'm pointing out things. And I think we can answer that in different ways. And still, we already are the body of Christ agreeing and disagreeing on those things when we're gathering together in person.

Yeah, I really think so much can be just put down to are you starting the conversation? Are you doing the work of study? Are you are you, you know, engaging with the text on any real level? That's the that's the best place to start. And I can answer the question there of do you have an ethics form or guidelines? We have rules on our Discord server that I would consider to be those. And it is John Wesley's rules, which are traditionally to do no harm, to do good and then to attend upon the ordinances of God.

The third one gets a little wordy. So we just change it into strive to grow. And so those are rules that are very simple, but are also very widely capable of being spread. We can name the harm, we can name the good, and we can also say, you're not here to grow. If those things are not true, then we have reason. Yeah, I love the starting with do no harm really is a valuable thing because sometimes we just burst into things without thinking before we act. But if you're pausing to say will I do harm, that's a great place to start.

I had a question there about marriage. I've not even, you know, broached this or heard people talking about this. So that's a fascinating question I've not run into having a virtual marriage of a couple that have never met in person. I do know that, you know, for centuries, you know, you could send away and have a mail order bride and those still happen today. You correspond, but never meet in person. Now, today, you could have virtual, you know, you could have Zoom calls for a lengthy amount of time before ever meeting in person. And I have heard of people, you know, they meet on dating apps, and they live in separate states, and maybe they only got together once or twice in person before meeting.

I don't know of any online weddings that I've seen where the bride and groom weren't in the same place, but I do know of people who are sharing with friends further afield. In fact, Assassinator staff and G-Funk Railroad did their wedding on Twitch for all of the Twitch community to be able to watch the wedding who could not attend in person, which was a fascinating thing. So, I don't know. Nate, do you know anybody that's done a virtual company? Not an online. Not that I can say online, but I have known nerd weddings. I've known, like, a geek preacher, Derek White, who, you know, married people that only ever really met at GaryCon, the, you know, convention.

So, like, I mean, that's not virtual, but it is something that's, like, he didn't really know them beyond the convention. It wasn't like a long-term friendship or a pastoral relationship. And I think there's nuance. There's always trouble whenever you start talking about marriage because then you start bringing in a really wide swath of theological dissonance and then governmental dissonance. It's trouble. Yeah. Yeah, not one that I had even thought about, but you were talking, oh, so you were talking about, you know, meeting at a convention.

I actually have a wedding that I met. He lives, like, 20 minutes down the road from me, but we met going to Nerd Culture Ministry Summit in Texas. So we met going to Texas, though we live 20 minutes from each other. His wedding is going to be in July, and they're doing cosplay at the reception, but no cosplay at the wedding. So you can cosplay the reception. I'm like, this is fascinating. I've never cosplayed at a wedding.

I don't know if I'm going to, but I think it's a fascinating thing to bring that nerdiness into who you are. My sister-in-law wanted to have the Imperial March play when she entered in for the wedding, and it was like, nah, that doesn't feel right, because it was in a church. And the church was like, no, it doesn't happen that way. But it would have been funny, too, if she'd have done it for the reception, but didn't do it there. I have a snarky response, and then hopefully more, like, a logistical response to Ruth Ellen, and that is, how do you find people for church? You go, therefore, unto all nations, right? Like, we're making disciples.

Go to all the spaces. For us, the logistical answer was I had a calling towards the nerds, the geeks, and the gamers. I was originally going to go to cons. COVID happened. And so I said, okay, where did they all go? And the answer at the time was Twitch. And so I turned to Twitch because I wanted to find the nerds, the geeks, and the gamers.

That was the, quote, unquote, nation that I felt called towards. And so I think if you envision the internet as a mission field, then that might be the answer for you, is how do you find people? What part of the neighborhood are you called to? What is the mission field for you? Or what is the mission field for the church that you serve or the church that you're a part of? That's how you find people. Go to where they are.

Find the coffee shop. Find the, you know, the local equivalent of, you know, the bar that you're planning on hanging out in and meeting people. You know, like, that is, that's the work of the evangelist, right? Well, and another way to, to, to look at it, same kind of thing is, is what do you like to do for fun? You know, that might be who you're called to go and, and be a part of ministering to. I didn't bring this up, uh, in, in mine, I'd had thought about it at one point. So I did a lot of, um, drama when I was in college.

That's where I met my wife. We met in a play in college. That's how we met. And I, I hung around there. I did the plays throughout college. I had enough to get a minor. I could have went and got a degree.

I don't like, I'm never going to use this. I'm never going to do it. Uh, I always joke around and say the position of Danny DeVito, the short quirky, uh, guy was already taken. So I, I wasn't going to win any roles from him. So I wasn't going to do it. And then my church was looking for someone to do drama ministry. And I had this thought, like, you mean I can take what I like to do for fun and God could use it for the kingdom.

And I think that's just a great way to think through what do you like to do for fun and where can God use it for the kingdom? So for me, it was within the church and doing drama ministry for the church, but it might be going and seeking out people that, you know, are in that region and doing that thing you love. So if I loved community theater, it would be going and being Christ in the community theater and maybe starting a Bible study in a community theater group. So what is it that you love is a great place to think about, or do you have a passion for a group of people that every time you hear about them breaks your heart? If you have a passion for single unwed mothers, maybe that's who you're supposed to go. And that's who the people you're supposed to find is to serve the people that you have a passion. So either the passion that you have for yourself or the passion of a need that other people have.

And that's kind of how I would describe Nate. Nate, you know, he had a passion for those nerdy neighbors and he wanted to reach them. So he went to find where they were. All right. All right. We got a question. Twitch communities can be very toxic as a digital missionary.

How do you balance the mission to minister to people while staying faithful to God? I'm trying to understand the question. I think that, you know, your faithfulness to God, I think, should come first. If you've got a strong sense of your identity in Christ, then the question becomes, what are you called to do in this mission work? And I really do think that we have to think about this as a mission field and a neighborhood situation. And so whenever you're sent on mission, whenever you're sent out into the world, we aren't colonizers. And so you're not going to lay claim to the community that you're going into.

You don't want to go and try and take over. Because if you do that, that is how you bring out their toxicity in the most intense place. But if you go in and show a better way, if you go in and love them, if you go in and be a presence of comfort and then have a space for them to go whenever they're ready to know more, that's huge. And so for us, like we're on YouTube, we're in spaces like that. We're in fandoms that can be considered pretty toxic. I mentioned Delta earlier, right? Like Undertale has a pretty toxic fandom side.

But if we go and we present with love and grace, and then we say, also, we have this Discord server, then the Discord server is where we can do the actual like work of discipleship, the actual like relationship building. But if I just go in and knock down the doors of Reddit, and I'm just like, y'all are all going to listen to me, then that's how you're going to do it. Well, you're going to get muted, right? Like that's never going to be the most effective way. And so I think that's a huge step in entering into toxic places and being a true light, being a salt, right? Like if you want to be the salt and light of the earth and go into that space and be the dissonant comfort and love of God to a toxic community so that they can't resist but know more about you. Yeah.

And I would say you talked about this earlier on when people come into the community and you're patient with them, you engage with them and you invite them in. And then we talked about the ticketing process there. So whether it is in Twitch, which is on their spaces, whether it's in Discord, it's setting the standard and drawing people into conversations rather than just banning them at the first sign of something. I think those are the ways that you handle the toxicity. I know my mods are fantastic at being able to address things. And I'm far more patient at times than my mods are. And my rules on the toxicity really go around.

You can attack me as the streamer, as the community person. I'm okay with that. I have to be tough-skinned to take it. But you cannot do harm to my community. And when you start to do harm, I will redirect you. But if that persists, I have a short leash on you harming other people in my space. So for me, that's where my line is.

You're harming people that I am here to protect. That's not permitted. But if it's against me, I'll let it go. I'll keep trying to redirect. I'll try to do that. And when it's clear, you're there for no other purpose until you will get me to do that for the sake of the community, then I will ban people from it. But it's that persistent engagement, I think, really is one of the things.

Letting them express what it is, seeing what's true. Because you can misunderstand sometimes because maybe their English is second language, and they're using language that they hear, but that's not really what they're trying to convey. It's the way that they've dragged the culture of their English that they're learning from Twitch into your community. That's not really what they're trying to express. And so I don't always assume that, but I have no idea when it's in text versus if it's in a voice chat. Yeah, you would try to turn toxic communities into non- toxic if we create our own communities that people come to, yeah. Thank you very much, Nate and Dr.

Level Up. Just so glad to have the two of you. For me, and I'm the one who went and surveyed the community and said, what is it you want? What is it you're looking for? I think the two of you did amazing, exactly on target for what I understood they were looking for. I hope mine felt the same way there. So thank you for that.

I think we did—what was the question that we did have? Oh, how do we help? This will be the last question. And Dr. Level Up, if you want to jump up here at any time to answer it, the— how do we convey to people that don't understand that digital is real ministry? And we were just talking about marriage and people that met online, and online dating is real dating. Very few people would doubt that online dating is real dating, that it can't lead to real relationships.

So if we have evidence and proof that they can agree with, we have a starting point to say. So if that's real relationships— I also try to take it offline as well. And I talk about pen pals. Are pen pals real relationships? Have you ever sponsored a child in another country, and you got letters from that child? Do you have a real relationship with that child? Yes, you have a real relationship.

Have you ever been physically present with that child? No, you don't. So I try to go down the level of places where they can say, yes, these are real relationships. They are indeed intimate in some level. And then say, so then wouldn't it also hold true that you could do this online? And I would then also go another way is, so if you have grandkids in another state, are you going to refrain from doing Zoom calls or FaceTime because you're not in person? And nobody is ever going to say yes to that.

Why not? It can't be real if you're over a Zoom call or you're on FaceTime or whatever. It's like, no, nobody—so when you start pressing them in the ways of, is this real? On the level of those things, you can start to get some leeway in that. Now, is it real ministry? I tell stories. I tell stories of life change.

That's what I do to convince people or to share that it's real. It's a life story of impact and how do you argue with me of a life change when I've never been in person with that individual who I've been a part of their life being changed or I've witnessed in other communities their life being changed. I have a hard time seeing that you can argue with that. Nate, you got anything else to add to that? I can double down and say that's exactly what I was going to say. Keep stories in your back pocket. Know the life change that you're having.

Again, the more I try to think about this as being any different from traditional church, the more similar it is. This is the same thing they teach you in Church Planning 101. Like, have stories. Keep names. Write down things that you're doing. If it's a litmus test of, like, is it real or is it not real? Tell them.

Have a baby brother and tell them. Show them. Have examples. Create videos. Create conversation logs. Have examples. The one that I always send to people, and I will die on this hill, is I think every human being on Earth needs to watch this movie.

Dropping it in the link right now. It's called The Remarkable Life of Ibelin. You're a bunch of nerds, maybe, so there's a chance you might know it. But if not, put this on the top of your wish list. This is something you must watch. It's on Netflix. It is a story of a young man who is suffering from a debilitating disease, who forms relationships through World of Warcraft.

If you have never seen it, do yourself a favor, grab a box of tissues and go and enjoy it. It is my mission in life from the time I saw this movie to get every person that I know to watch it, because there is no clearer example to me of the legitimacy of digital relationships and digital friendships and the impact that we make on other lives through digital culture than this movie. You can't do a better job, so that's another freebie I wasn't planning on giving out. I love that one. That's really cool. I will have to put that on my list. One other thing that I also will have in conversations, and this depends on the depth of the relationship I have with the person, if I bring this up or not, but I will turn the tables around and talk about, do you actually have real ministry happening just because people show up on Sunday?

Do you have real relationship with them? Did they actually have an impact just because they were physically present doesn't mean they were mentally or spiritually present? You are making an assumption there that they were spiritually present or they were relationally present simply because their body was there. Their mind, their spirit, their soul could have all been 100% disengaged just because they're physically present doesn't mean real relationships and real ministry is happening. Yeah. Lexi, you've gone down a rabbit hole with the Sukkot principle and have the festival of Sukkot relations relates to hospitality and the theology of fun. I see it as relying and recognizing God as our dwelling place, but others.

Can you do some more clarification? Well, the Sukkot is so we can have the festival of booths is where we are supposed to, or they were supposed to live in booths and remember that they were sojourners in the land. Now, the same booth is used also in regards to the tabernacling and the process of that where God is tabernacling and being amongst the people. So we have that overlap there. So you can have the two separate. We also have Jesus and John who he tabernacled, he pitched his tent among us and he made his dwelling among men. God came and did that.

So we have the example of God doing it with the tabernacle. We have Jesus doing that in and amongst us. We have the people doing that in the Old Testament. So it's an overlap of those two things. Is it the people doing this and remembering what they were doing? Or are we embodying Christ by going and tabernacling among other people? So there's two different levels there.

I don't know if that clears that up. But if not, yeah, that's definitely a conversation we can have another day. But I probably tried to do too much with all of the festivals there and overlapping them. But that's where my Bible nerd just kicks in. And I'm trying to connect all of these things that are all hardwired and firing synopses in the back of my mind. And then I'm trying to do it in a short thing instead of like a five-part teaching series, which I should do. Just doing it all in one and saying, here, don't you think this is awesome?

But anyway, I hope that clears that up. Well, thank you, everyone, for being here. So love that you were able to come and join and hang out. And I hope you learned stuff. I will be posting and sharing in the next week. And also sending out, if you went and you clicked the link to sign up at gaming.missionary.digital. If you went and signed up there, I've got your email.

I'll make sure and email you when things come out. If you're watching on Twitch and you didn't do that, you can go sign up now. And I will send that to you. If you're watching this later, you know, join the Discord family. Would love to have you there. If you're doing digital ministries, you're always welcome to ask questions in the channel. Post what you're doing.

Share what's going on. We are here to help you and help you connect with others. And so in that way, I hope this was a blessing to all of you. So thank you. Thank you, everyone. The questions you guys asked are really thoughtful. If you have more questions, keep them coming.

Keep them coming. And keep the conversation going. Thank you, everyone. Have a blessed day. And I will see you when the next event happens. Or you can always go check out my podcast, Control- Alt-Redeem. And if you have a suggestion for somebody to be on there, I'm always looking for more people to have on the podcast.

Just rolling credits for those over in the Discord. I'm not in the Discord. Those not on Discord, I'm rolling credits. I'm not in the Discord.

— departure log decoded via WhisperX, lightly cleaned for reading —