How to Effectively Follow-Up from Easter Sunday

[Tom Pounder] Today we're going to talk about how you can follow up effectively after Easter services. Are you ready? Because it's time. [SPEAKER_00] You're listening to the Church Digital Sidekick Podcast, part of the TCD Podcast Network. [Tom Pounder] Hey heroes, my name is Tom Pounder and this is the Church Digital Sidekick Podcast. This is the podcast where I bring on ministry leaders and we talk about how you can do ministry more effectively in this very digital and online world. And today I have two guests with me. This is from a Twitter space that we did a little bit ago, but these two guests are friends of mine and they're Mark McDonald. and Jeanette Yates. These are church comm leaders who are just amazing people and they have amazing insights on church communications and more particular about following up. I've invited Mark and Jeanette on because they've been in the church communications world for a really long time and they're really great about strategizing and encouraging churches on how to do church communications more effective. And today we talk about following up from Easter. Easter is a great day. It's a huge celebration. Lots of people come to Easter, some for the very first time. And that is why following up after an event like Easter is so important. Because after all, if you capture information and you're just like, oh, these people came and just said they came and tracked the number, but then don't encourage them or follow up with them in some way, we're missing a huge opportunity to help impact the kingdom of heaven. We're missing a huge opportunity for helping people discover who God is, not just on Christmas and Easter, but all throughout the year and the rest of their lives. So Mark and Jeanette are on with me and we've discussed this. This is a little bit longer podcast than I normally do because we spent a while talking about Easter and the effective follow-up strategies, but I hope you enjoy this podcast. So without any further ado, let's get an interview with Mark and Jeanette talking about effective follow-up from Easter services. with me today is mark mcdonald and jeanette yates uh they are two friends of mine uh and again i've met them both online and they both live in florida uh but i've still never met them in person it's true it's true and perhaps that's because you haven't sent me your address yet that's true that's that is why don't why don't you just tell it right now yeah [Mark MacDonald] It is 26. [Tom Pounder] Oh, wait a second. Since it's April Fool's Day, I should do a fake address. I should send everyone to Jeanette's house. Well, I don't even know Jeanette's address. [Jeanette Yates] Exactly. [Mark MacDonald] Isn't it Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington? Yeah, 1600. [Jeanette Yates] I was trying to think of another famous address that wasn't that, but I couldn't. Like 227, what was the name of that street? [Tom Pounder] Oh. i know the show but i don't remember the street okay well there's there's one two three sesame street that's right there we go there we go something everybody knows um that's right okay well as we get into this um why don't you guys i mean introduce yourselves we've been kind of beating around the bush a little bit about it but mark why don't you introduce yourself and then jeanette after he's done you can introduce yourself about what you guys do and how you guys got started in that [Mark MacDonald] Oh, wow. So I can't believe I get to do what I get to do. And I think that, so I just came back from breakfast with a really good friend who we just talked about this, about how, you know, when we become believers, I mean, I believe that we're ordained into an incredible opportunity to be able to share the love of Christ with as many people as possible. And guess what I get to do? I mean, originally I am Canadian, eh? and uh and i uh made my way clawed my way to the top of one of eastern canada's largest ad agencies as senior creative director uh and the whole time that i was i was trying to make it to the top i just kept thinking so why doesn't the church know this and so my wife and two boys and myself we moved to winston-salem north carolina 21 years ago and set up an agency for churches and to really help them communicate better, but ultimately so that our churches can be known for something that's relevant and needed so that we can just get our community to actually listen again to our churches. So I get to do that on a regular basis, and I'm also the executive director for Center for Church Communication, and we influence about 10,000 churches across the country. [Tom Pounder] That's awesome. That's great. Jeanette. [Jeanette Yates] Mark is so amazing, isn't he? He is. He's got a great story. And he only mentioned like one thimble full of his experience and expertise. Right, right. But anyway, I am Jeanette and I, let's see, I got started in church communications, probably. um more than eight years ago nine ten years ago maybe and i just was basically like filling in for somebody and i was writing bulletin articles and that was about it um and by the time um i realized i was working there full time i was doing social media website email um all kinds of communication internal external graphic design all of that and i learned everything i learned by going to the internet and typing in what is this and how do i do it and so i um definitely um credit um church marketing sucks with introducing me to the likes of um the you know Brady Shearer and all those people who kind of taught me and walked me through what exactly was church communications and how it was more than just an administrative position, but it was a ministry and a way to serve the kingdom. So anyway, I did that for a few years and then... gradually found my way to now where I work for a company that works with churches. I am the community manager for text and church and spend a lot of time on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter, hanging out with church communicators and helping them feel known, noticed and loved. [Mark MacDonald] and anybody who is not following jeanette on social media needs to follow her because she is the biggest motivator and encourager on the entire internet yeah i i am very excited for other people and what's going on in their lives and if you i really feel like uh [Jeanette Yates] that giving people um encouragement in the form of kind words or funny gifts is kind of you know my spiritual gift is gifts i wonder i wonder is there are there spiritual gifts now yes there are [Tom Pounder] that gifts is it really is it's it's a spiritual gift i mean to be able to share those strategically and great i mean you've got to be good at that and jeanette's really good at that you know i think that there should be a book called the the best spiritual gifts let's work on it mark let's work on it or mark you can write a book be known for gifts um okay so we could talk about gifts for a really long time but today we're actually talking about easter and we're talking about easter follow-up because here's the deal a lot of churches do a lot of good stuff for easter but if you do all the good stuff leading up to easter and even on easter sunday but if you don't have a follow-up plan i think a lot of what you do is for for not and um and it's wasted stuff that you've done because follow-up is where the key is so that's why i got mark on i've got jeanette on because when i think about follow-up i think you know jeanette's great about this mark's great about this about the communication stuff and so we've talked about these before i've talked to them separately about these but together as a group i just figured we could go back and forth and and share different insights different learnings different tips that you've seen to be effective over the years so whoever wants to start whether it's jeanette or mark we'll just kind of go back and forth and share and kind of debrief and discuss it as we go about but what what have you guys seen to be effective in your experience mark i'm gonna let you go first oh thanks i appreciate that [Mark MacDonald] You know, I think that the, and maybe this is going to be a little bit of a soapbox, but I don't know whether everyone realizes it or not, but churches love to change the message all the time. And I think that we need to figure out, and I know that this is my big mantra, and I did write the book called Be Known for Something, and it really is about concentrating on one message long enough so that you become known for it. And if it's the right message, then people will actually choose you and want to choose you, say, after Easter. So what I've oftentimes found is that in a lot of churches, It seems like Easter is an incredibly different service, an incredibly different experience than what you would have before Easter. You know, I get to travel and do mystery visits in churches and things like that. And I've stopped. actually visiting churches at Easter time or at Christmas time or any special time because their service, and I hate to say this, but it's so much better on those weeks. So then you say... We're so glad that you're here at Easter and you've experienced the, you know, the biggest explosion of lights and haze that you've ever seen in your entire life. And so we want you to come back and then you come back. and and it's lackluster like and the and the student pastor's preaching that's because everyone is totally exhausted afterwards and i think that what we need to figure out is how do we how do we create something that's the same before easter during easter and then continuing it after easter so i think that my biggest thing is you know because it might be a little too late now to go to your pastor and say we need to tone this down but what we need to do is we need to make sure that the expectation is not going to be so huge and and the bar raised so high that you'll never be able to have the people come back and and like what what they just experienced at Easter. And I think that we, I mean, by raising the bar every year to do more and more stuff at Easter, I think that you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot because you can't sustain it afterwards. And I know that that really didn't answer your question, Tom, but by now you should know that I don't always answer your questions. [Tom Pounder] That's great. But we do want to hit on this a little bit because I do think what you present on Easter really needs to be consistent with who you are as a church. And if you're not certain things, if you try to do church so differently on Easter than you do during the rest of the week, you're right. You're going to disappoint a lot of people, and they're going to have false expectations of what your church is actually like. So I would think what I see in that is you want your Easter services to be consistent. And you want your Easter services to really display just, again, the culture that your church is all about, you know? [Mark MacDonald] Oh, for sure. And the thing is, is that a lot of people who set foot in the church for the very first time, it will happen, you know, during either Christmas or Easter. And when they arrive... The churches that know who they are and know what they're all about and the ones that communicate it effectively during their Easter service, it's so much easier for you to pivot towards, we would love for you to come back so that you can experience and then be able to fill in the blanks of what they'll be able to experience at the church. [Jeanette Yates] Yep. it's interesting that you brought that up mark because um in some of the facebook groups that i manage you know we've been kind of talking about like what is your plan for easter and what is your plan for you know follow-up we've been having these conversations and almost everybody there's a few people that are you know doing the brass band or the string quartet or the It's the handbells and the pageant and all that. There's a couple of those. But for the most part, people are saying our Easter Sunday service is going to be just like every other service. [Mark MacDonald] That's awesome. [Jeanette Yates] we're just doing the stuff that we normally do one person talked about how they normally like some of them are adding that sunrise service but it's again just going to be a service that's the same as their other services at sunrise it's not um anything different as far as the structure of it or the music or anything like that and then you know i had a i had one person in the in my facebook group say um that you know every year they do this huge like breakfast you know garden party thing um for easter sunday and it's you know they it's catered and and all this stuff and he said that this year what they're doing is they're just asking their members to bring muffins that they bought from the store as part like like just everybody bring your own muffin um and we are still gonna gather and and fellowship with each other but you know we're not doing this big over overstated thing and so i think there is this and i think part of it is you know yes part of it is what you're talking about mark is like people you know churches need to be consistent and want to be but i think it's also um you know we're everybody's tired we've been yeah we've been on high alert for uh two years now two and a half years and high stress and so the you know it used to be that like easter was going to be that big stressful thing and then we kind of relax after well now it's like no we're already maxed out already like we don't need to add anything to make it that way so i think this idea of having that you know understated or or you know not all the bells and whistles for easter you know the most important thing is to connect with your church family and then any anybody who joins in that sunday like you said sometimes for the first time where they can come in and and not feel like they're interrupting a play yeah like oh i'm sorry did i walk on stage exactly exactly yeah well go ahead mark well it's it's so funny because um [Mark MacDonald] one of the things that i also do for churches i do focus groups and i talk to individual demographics of each of of the churches that i'm working with and and we i always ask can you can you also get an unchurched group people who are not associated with any church in the area they might have attended your service in the past but but have them sit down in a room and and i find it very challenging because um they all think I'm going to talk about the church or try to win them to the Lord or whatever. But what I've found is that people who are in the community who are totally unchurched or people who don't really associate themselves with church, which is about two thirds of all of our communities. So we have a huge opportunity when somebody walks through the doors, they all think that they're gonna get struck by lightning. And when they leave, they're somewhat surprised. I didn't get struck by lightning, but I felt something that I haven't ever felt in another live venue. And I think that what we need to do is we need to be very, very sensitive of that. And in the same sense of what we were just talking about, we need to give voice to what they experienced. and be able to have them understand when somebody says, so I hear you went to church on Sunday. Woo, like, are you religious now? They need to be able to use some words to be able to describe what they experienced. And I think that in the communication world, I think that we need to make sure we're giving them those words so that they know what they just experienced. [Tom Pounder] Yeah, I like that because, again, you know. When when I'm looking at like the Easter service one of the things I thought is like how are we casting vision? About what our church is actually about because I think a lot of people who are coming into church for the very first time are wondering Well, what is this church all about? Oh, it's just they have preconceived notions about what church is This is your opportunity to cast vision to say this is what our church does This is what we're about and this is how like I even thought like what could we do a one-minute video or 90-second video? that we show during mid-service about what our church is all about because again it's all part of the communication process you're trying to break down walls you're trying to get them to say wow this this church is different than something i've ever experienced before [Mark MacDonald] yeah and and the interesting thing is that um what you're talking about you know oftentimes when we think about follow-up for easter we we you know quickly go to you know how many emails do we send somebody or how many text messages that we have to send somebody but but ultimately what we need to do is have them understand what they just experienced and that it can happen again you can come back and experience this again and the more you can know who you are before easter and then when they've experienced it at easter you can promise uh you know the same thing afterwards or the same benefit um you know This happens every week of the year, and we would love for you to participate. And the joy of COVID, I can't believe I just said that in all of this sentence, but the joy of COVID is that everyone expects that there's also a way to do this online. So if you can't come back next week, or if you can't come back on a regular basis, you might be visiting, you can still experience our church online. [Tom Pounder] okay so let's get into the nitty-gritty here about this and you know you talked about how many emails how many text messages what should you do like what what are some things that you guys have found to be successful here um uh that will not will will yeah just continue this conversational with with people and get them to come back to church and hopefully discover who god is in their life [Jeanette Yates] Yeah, so it's so since you mentioned something, since you mentioned texts and emails, I'll chime in here. Yeah, so I, you know, yes, I do work for text in church, which is a software company that helps you send texts and emails to your guests and your members. You know, I do agree with mark and i think if anybody i work with would say the same thing that it's not there is no magic number of emails or texts that you can send to get somebody to come back what you want to do with what whatever follow-up process you come up with is you want to start the conversation during that service right start that you know the the question asking in their you know in their minds like what am i experiencing what am i you know is this the way it is all the time what you know they're asking these questions your follow-up process needs to answer those questions um that they're having and like mark said give them the language um to be able to express that so um you know i think that's what the follow-up process does and you know i think whether it's easter sunday or really any sunday it's got to be a consistent follow up. It's got to be a sufficient follow up and you've got to use relevant methods to do it. So, you know, we can talk a little bit more about that. But I think, you know, that's another thing to think about is one gift that they get to take home on Easter Sunday, or one card mailed to them, or one email or even one or two texts is not is not sufficient. [Mark MacDonald] that's so good jeanette and and uh you know i i mean i'm a huge proponent of text in church i i mean it is it's like the well i better say just to keep peace one of the best software that's out there and uh and they certainly um are are the best because they employed jeanette thanks mark but the thing is is that what we what you really have to is kind of like even if we were talking about social media uh do what it takes to get them to follow along so like oftentimes i'm just amazed at how many times in a church service there people are like if you're visiting today fill out all of this information for us on the connect card and put it in the offering plate like you never see everyone jumping for it it's like oh man i would love to do that like there number one people need to know what happens when you write you give some information and number two Give them a reason to like, like find out what they might want. Like maybe integrate with your pastor a way for him to talk about a book that has just changed his perspective on the resurrection. And then for him to say, in fact, this book, I don't even know whether it's, it's usually sold out everywhere. But if you guys wanted to text us right now, we will mail you one this week. And then all of a sudden, it's like you've increased the desire to want to get something. And then I know a lot of churches will go, oh my goodness, do you know how much that cost in mail? Well, the thing is, there is a cost for them to give you their personal information. And we've got to figure out what is the cost and are we going to actually give them something in return for that personal information? And I find that churches just drop the ball. [Jeanette Yates] yeah and i also don't think it even needs to be like you said you need to let people know what's going to happen when they give you their information and it does not have to you know something like a book or a devotional or or something would be great but it doesn't i mean people will give their private information their cell phone number to the smoothie store to get 10 off a smoothie yes it doesn't have to they they know they're going to get 10% off a smoothie. They're going to give them that number. That's it. You know, it's not that they're holding onto it so tightly. They just need to know what to expect. And, and it's something they want to your point. Mark is like, yeah, I want my 10% off my smoothie. [Mark MacDonald] We could have that. They didn't have, they don't have to give offerings for the next two weeks. just as soon as you said 10 like we immediately went to the tithes like i think in scripture it talks about how if we give our our email or our phone number to the church we don't have to tithe for a couple weeks yes i'm pretty sure it's right there in deuteronomy [Tom Pounder] I love the idea of this incentivizing it because, again, your information is valuable. You only give it out when you feel like you're going to benefit from it in some way. And so, again, we talk about our church. Hey, you know, Texas, do your digital connection card and we'll get you information about the church. Well, that's probably not good enough for people to do it because they can just get the information in the bulletin or whatever else there is out there. [Mark MacDonald] Um, well, oftentimes the, the, the thing that we get back or the, the thing that we're, we hear, you know, give us, give us, uh, all of your information. So it helps us. And then it becomes more about the church than it does about the benefit of the person who's giving up something. And so, so the cost I get, that's why, that's why the smoothie shop says you get 10% off. If you give us your, your information. And then totally respect that information. Just treat it so preciously. Because if you knew how many times I type in stop moments afterwards because I wanted the 10% off. I was just in Chicago last week and I sat down and they said, well, we no longer have menus. You can just scan this QR code. Well, when I went to the QR code, it required me to put all the personal information in. And I'm thinking just to see a menu, are you kidding me? And then at the bottom, it said the magic word. It says, and we'll give you 10% off your first meal. And then I thought, okay, I'll do this. So I gave them all their information. But over the next two days, I got bombarded with, you know, they wanted to get me to come back. And I just, it's like, stop, I'm done. And it is hard to get someone back after they've left you. [Jeanette Yates] Well, and I think, you know, you bring up a good point. And I actually talked about this in another podcast recently about how, actually, was it yours, Tom? [Tom Pounder] No, it could have been yours. [Jeanette Yates] No, yeah, it might have been the church juice one. But, you know, yes, we have to be better than the smoothie shop or the restaurant, right? You know, people know, yeah, I'm going to get this 10% off and I'm just going to text stop later. They text stop not because of the fact that they're getting more texts than they want. They're texting stop because they're getting more texts than they want that don't give them anything. [Tom Pounder] Yes. [Jeanette Yates] So if, you know, if you're engaging them in conversation, if you're connecting with them on a personal level, that's not spam if you're just going come to our church come come on sunday we look forward to seeing you on sunday we hope to see you sunday oh we missed you on sunday that's that's not gonna cut it that's just gonna make people want to run away and text words stop but if you're inviting yeah and jeanette don't you find that that the church doesn't really have a road map oftentimes uh as to what they're going to do with that personal information yeah i think that's part of the problem is they really don't know um that's why they typically ask for all of it like i want all i want to know how you know [Mark MacDonald] How many children do you have? [Jeanette Yates] Are you married? How many kids do you have? How old are you? Are you interested in learning more about any of these ministries that we have? Here's all 15 of them. Please check one of them. I mean, because they're like, we just need all this information so that we can make a better decision instead of saying, really, I just want to know your name and how I can get in touch with you so I can get to know you better. [Mark MacDonald] yeah and it's it's somewhat crazy because remember even though it's free to fill out something there is a cost and everybody knows that cost is that how many times will they contact me and And will I be able to get out of it later? And if they know too much about me, so like, you know, the more, the more fields we have, the, the more expensive that form is. So like get, get whatever it takes to get the, you know, the easiest form, whether it's going to be texting or whether it's going to be email just to get something from them. And then you can, you can do a trickle campaign, you know, like where you're, know whether you call it a funnel like you just like start an engagement with them so that they'll give you a little bit more along the way [Tom Pounder] So would it be best is if you collect, say you collect this information, however it is that your church collects this information, would it be best then for you guys to sit back in a room on Monday or Tuesday after Easter, look at all the information and say, okay, how are we going to text them, email, or how are we going to call them? Would a phone call be a good next step or follow-up as opposed to a text or an email? Well, I think... [Jeanette Yates] I think you want to have the minimum information and you want to have your plan before you ask people for that information. Because if you're waiting to get started thinking about this until after you've collected that information, you know, it's... know people get spring fever yeah pastors are exhausted the youth groups getting ready to wind up for the summer that you know like wind up meaning like they're getting ready to be busy you know all of this stuff is happening inside the church and if you don't already have a plan in place you're that those people are going to fall through the cracks maybe one or two you know maybe some of them are going to get the full connection but if you don't have a consistent follow-up plan already in place before you even gather that information your people are you're gonna lose that connection yeah and let's call a spade a spade too on monday after easter everyone is totally exhausted it is not the time to try to figure out a follow-up plan at that point right right um now as for what works best is it a text is it an email is it a phone call um i think one of the things that we all have to remember is everyone has their own preference for the way they prefer to be communicated with um which is why you can't do just one of those things okay you need to do multiple forms of communication and you don't need to do it all in the first week [Mark MacDonald] No. [Jeanette Yates] Please don't. Which is why, you know, at Text in Church, we talk about a follow-up process for a guest being around six weeks. We have some people that have said that's too long for us. We do four weeks. But the majority of people actually do the six or even 12 weeks of follow-up. And I can talk a little bit about why that is later. That follow up process being longer enables you to kind of slowly, like Mark was talking about, drip, you know, kind of information and not just information, but conversation, encouragement, things like that in your communications via email, via text. Yes, somebody should make a phone call, but be prepared to leave a message because, you know, Sometimes the pastor or somebody will say, I really like to make a phone call. I like to call all of our guests. But chances are that person is not going to answer that phone if they don't know who's calling them. So you need to be prepared to leave a message that's not bumbling and confusing, that's clear. And do all of those things over the course of several weeks. [Mark MacDonald] Yeah, and it was interesting because a really good friend of mine just started going to a new church, finally filled out his Connect card. As he said, I took a deep breath and thought, okay, well, I'll fill it out just so that I'm now known. And that's one thing that we do know is that people don't want to be visitors until they want to be known as a visitor. Right. And the moment that they do fill out that form, Like he wasn't quite sure what it was going to do, but he knew it was going to activate something. Well, Tuesday night after he filled out his form on Sunday morning, uh, he had a deacon and two people from the youth department show up at his door with, uh, an entire meal for his family, but they never let him know before, before actually showing up at his door. Yeah. And, and so. like you just people people are idiots sometimes like you just have to you just have to think through like there was nothing positive about that experience with the church so as he said i don't know whether i'd fill out the connect card the next time and and what we need to do is we need to make sure that everyone knows what the next steps are and that we get full permission to do it right right [Tom Pounder] yeah i i like what you guys said here just to highlight a few things real quick is like jeanette i i know that whenever somebody calls me and i don't i don't recognize the number i'm not answering so i'm i'm putting right the voicemail and so if you're going to follow up with a phone call you have to be good with uh um with a with leaving a message and that's totally appropriate because i do go back and listen to the messages or i look at on my iphone the the transcript of the message right whatever those are always fun but um mark i think the idea of that church going and giving them food is a great idea it's just like what you said executed very poorly because then you just feel trapped there you know like if you're if you're the person and you're not communicating with hey maybe i don't need food or maybe i have food allergies or something like that You're not getting to know the people. You're doing something that you think is gonna be good, but you don't actually know if it's gonna be beneficial to that person or not. [Mark MacDonald] Absolutely. And Tom, I mean, we probably should just even take a step back further and realize that if someone's visiting you for the very first time on Easter, they're probably not gonna give you personal information. So what I would strongly urge every church that's listening, on any service, whether it's a big service like Easter or any other service, make sure that they know the trusted way to find out information about the church. And that should probably be their website. And so I think that we've almost let websites kind of go by the wayside where we don't really talk about them very much, mainly because Most people don't really care what domain you have, what URL. they will probably just google your church and sure enough google will probably serve up the website if you if they if it doesn't then you have bigger problems and what we can talk about today but but what needs to happen from the the stage and from everything like from guest services to any interaction that somebody has with uh with a first-time guest or even a regular uh visitor it needs to be stated that you can trust our website and that if you if in doubt just go to our website because things have changed and it used to be that everyone used to refer to the bulletin it's like yeah if you look in your bulletin you'll be able to see everything that's happening this week well where most people have moved past that print material and we just need to make sure that we have a great way for them to find out the information on their website And then when they're on the website, that's probably where they'll go. You know what? I would like to get some more information about something, or I would like to download a book or I'd like to get a PDF of something. And then that's where you can get some more of their personal information. [Tom Pounder] Yeah. uh yeah i agree with you on that we overlook the website but really the website really needs to be updated with all the accurate information that's happening the worst thing to do is that that you have a bad phone number or a bad email address or even a bad location or something there from like 2019 it was the last time you updated it you you need to have your your website really updated [Mark MacDonald] well plus there needs to be you know what what jeanette and i have been talking about this whole you know drip campaign or what i like to call the relationship journey it's like no know where they're possibly at when they arrive and then know where you want to take them so if if the membership goal is ultimately you know we want them to to have a a great relationship with Jesus Christ and be able to become a Christ follower. Ultimately, you want discipleship and you want them to become a huge evangelist and go out and tell the world, you know, that's our ultimate goal. Well, it all starts with that single interaction that happens on the campus. And then typically it moves to some type of a digital entity. and so on your website if you have a theme from you know uh of you know what you all are known for as a church or what what the theme of the easter presentation oftentimes when people go to the website after easter there's there's very little left of easter on their website because it's it's expired or it's from the previous year But the thing is, is that there needs to be that next step clearly told in the service. If you go to our website, you can then do this. And then when you get to the website that is really clear on the homepage, that next step that can help them start moving towards a relationship with Christ. [Tom Pounder] Yeah, that's awesome. Jeanette, were you going to say something? [Jeanette Yates] No, I was just agreeing with Mark and laughter. [Tom Pounder] Okay, good. Okay, so let's do this. So, you know, we've got about like 10, 15 minutes left here. Just let's kind of spring, let's land the plane. I was trying to think of the right phrase. Let's land the plane here. As we kind of wrap up here, what are some tips and encouragement that you would give that maybe you haven't shared yet? [Mark MacDonald] I'll let you go first, Jeanette. [Jeanette Yates] Well, first of all, you know, if you want to know more about text in church, please reach out to me and I'll be happy to share about more about Easter follow up with you. But I think that as far as tips go, I think one thing, you know, that we did mention, but I just want to circle back is you want to have a plan for follow up before Easter Sunday gets here and there's still time to do it. It doesn't take that long. And you don't, you know, even if you, you know, I mentioned this, like, you know, Mark and I mentioned this longer, you know, relationship journey, this building, you know, having conversation, the six weeks, you don't even have to necessarily know everything you want to say for six weeks, but do a general map out of the, the important connection points that you want to make with someone. And you know i do agree with mark where he said you know listen if somebody's showing up for the very first time on easter sunday they may not be ready to give you their information but if you have something in mind and ryan wakefield from church marketing university teaches um this idea in his um And some of his trainings where, you know, you're prepared, you know, you have to give them a reason to come back and it doesn't need to necessarily be the very next Sunday. And he talks about, you know, another very popular Sunday is Mother's Day. And so inviting people for that or something like that. But, you know, I spoke with a church. uh in lakeland redemption church in lakeland florida this week and and their communications actually i don't know his title he wears many hats like all of us do but uh caleb oliver from there was talking about they actually have planned out from now until memorial day every thing that every sunday and how it's um basically inviting people back for each week there's a relationship building service or event or gathering that people are being invited to with the idea that it's going to take all the way till Memorial Day to know whether or not, you know, they're going to be tracking and, you know, keeping up with, you know, who comes back, who comes on Easter and it comes back for that second, third, fourth time all the way to Memorial Day. And so I think the idea of planning is so very important. You know, that's an extreme, very well-planned out thing, but you can also just say, what are we inviting them back to? Yes. and why would they want to come back for week for next week or the week after um and so i think that's important and then like i mentioned before using multiple forms of communication being consistent um in making sure that everybody is getting that follow-up and also making sure um you know it's sufficient in the fact that you're doing it for more than just one week yep [Tom Pounder] Well, let me just jump on that. We do a thing every year where after Easter, we have a guest speaker share the week after. And we try to get someone with a well-known name. Again, we're a bigger size church, but we're able to do that. And we sometimes get more people to come back for that guest speaker than we do for Easter. But again, then the thing is, what's next? You know, you always have to be thinking through what are you inviting them back to and how do you keep them engaged in so that hopefully ultimately they're building community and they're coming to know the Lord as their savior. So, yeah, that's a great thought, Jeanette. Mark, what do you got? [Mark MacDonald] So I just feel like the two of you have just dropped the mic because as I quickly pivoted and said, Jeanette, why don't you go first? I was thinking, holy crap, what do I say? uh and the only thing that came to mind was start something at easter like easter is easter is about resurrection it's about life it's about a new beginning people are looking desperately for something new and and just start something like get get something started it's not the end and and the the know the craziness of our communication world today is that oftentimes people will will read something and say so what like you know what now and and oftentimes we have these Easter things and like we do up from the grave he arose and like and then we finish and it's like oh man and then and it's like you're dismissed and it's like it stops something rather than start something and I think that we need to make sure and it's it's really similar to what um what you guys were saying is is you know it's just it's like have a plan like really just have a plan talk through it i know that everyone is so incredibly tired going up to easter you're all overworked you're underpaid you're you're to a point where it's just like can we get it all done oh my goodness it's gotta be done and then it it happens and the thing is is that it really can't be the end of your planning be the beginning of your planning [Tom Pounder] I love what you just said there, Mark, actually, because one of the things I like to do on Easter is, well, actually, this is what I do with all my online Bible studies, is that whenever I end a Bible study, I'm starting a new one, and I'm inviting those people to continue the journey with me. and what you're just saying here is you're inviting them back to do something and maybe it is a bible study hey if you're interested a great way to follow up is hey if you're interested come to um you know this bible study whether it's an in-person one or an online one and we're going to be talking about this and something that's relevant to the the resurrection and the life of christ that gives us you know and so i think those are some great ideas uh right there [Mark MacDonald] yeah and i think that you know what you just said is is really just you know in the in the marketing communications world i mean i think we all understand that we have to look at the average person who's attending and what are their biggest needs what are their biggest concerns what are their biggest goals and then how do we become a solution to the needs and concerns or a path to a goal then when we communicate what the thing is we need to make sure that that not only do we say their name as the people that that are listening to us but we need to be able to speak their pain but then ultimately i mean it's solutions to proclaim i mean it's just like one of those things where let me just give you a benefit or a solution or a path to a goal and then people will go you know what, I'm going to make time for the next whatever you started at Easter. Yeah. [Tom Pounder] Yeah, I agree with you completely on that. Well, guys, this has been awesome. This has been great having you guys on and sharing. As we kind of just wrap up, how can people connect with you? What's a great way that they can connect with you, either online or email or whatever is best for you guys? [Jeanette Yates] I'm on Twitter at Jayna Yates. And of course you can also follow at Text in Church on Twitter as well. We're also over on Instagram. I'm over there. I don't know which is, well, I think Twitter's, I don't know. [Tom Pounder] You better say Twitter. [Jeanette Yates] Twitter's my favorite. It's the easy peasy one. But that's how you can get in touch with me. [Mark MacDonald] And everyone needs to get in touch with Sinead Yates. Yep. And Tom Pounder as well. If you don't know, like if you don't follow them on a regular basis, I enjoy their posting and their interactions. And I can't say enough good about them. And if you're looking for me, I'm at most things, I'm MarkMac1023. It's my birthday, October 23rd. So MarkMac1023. And then the easiest way to just get a hold of me, go to benomeforsomething.com and you can even set up a... a totally free discovery call with me. There's lots of opportunities as you look at through our drip on our website. [Tom Pounder] Do I have to fill out 10 pages worth of information about this to get a free call? [Mark MacDonald] I think I'm gonna add to my forms, are you a friend of Tom and Jeanette's? [Jeanette Yates] Yes. [Mark MacDonald] And then they'll get priority. [Jeanette Yates] there there you go tom i know you're signing off but i did speaking of twitter and how awesome it is i did tweet at you just now um that a easter follow-up plan that people can download so it's completely free so they can if they want to check that out it is an option it talks about a lot of the stuff that we've already talked about here um but i was like hey i actually i i know where i can find one of these One of these follow-up plans. [Tom Pounder] All right. Good. I'm going to include all this stuff. So that'd be great. So thanks, guys. I really appreciate you guys taking time to spend with me on this April Fool's Day. That's right. [Mark MacDonald] Thank you, Tom. [Tom Pounder] All right, guys. Thanks a lot. I'll talk to you guys soon. All right. So what did you think of the interview? What did you think of the ideas that we shared? There's lots of different ideas, lots of different thoughts about following up on Easter. But the great thing is that you can take the principles applied here and apply it into your every Sunday services. You can apply these follow-up principles all throughout the year. So I would love to hear from you. What did you think of this? What encouraged you? What challenged you? What gave you inspiration? Definitely put it in the comment section below or hit me up on Twitter at TAPounder. I know Mark and Jeanette are on Twitter as well, and they would love to talk to you as well. I've got all their contact information in the show notes, so you definitely want to check that out today. All right, heroes, well, thanks so much for being with me today. As always, if you enjoyed the podcast, definitely go to iTunes or Spotify. Go to YouTube and subscribe to this. You can find this all at thechurch.digital as well. And at thechurch.digital, we have tons of different podcasts, tons of different resources, tons of coaching and cohorts that are available for you. So we would love for you to go to thechurch.digital today and get encouraged in your digital ministry. All right, heroes. Well, I hope you have a great rest of your day, a great rest of your week. And until next time, have a great one.