Instagram Engagement Tips for Your Church

implement so you can be more effective on instagram are you ready because it's time you're listening to the church digital sidekick podcast part of the tcd podcast network hey heroes my name is tom pounder and this is the church digital psychic podcast this is the podcast where we're on ministry leaders and we talk about how you can do ministry more effectively in this very digital and online world and today i have a first-time guest on her name is jennifer benton and she and i connected over Instagram. I met her via Instagram. I saw that she was doing some great stuff on Instagram. So today I pick her brain on what your church can do to be more effective on Instagram. Listen, Instagram's in the news a lot for this or that, you know, and people don't feel like they can be very effective on Instagram. Well, Jen talks about how you can do it. We talk about stories. We talk about reels. We talk about carousel. We talk about different things that your church can do today so that you can be more effective and reach more people for Christ. So I'm really excited to have her on. So without any further ado, let's get into the interview right now with Jen Benton. All right, with me right now is Jennifer Benton. Jennifer, how are you?

I'm good, Tom. Thank you for having me.

Well, I'm really excited that you're on the podcast today. I've kind of been kind of stalking you out on Instagram for quite some time and learning a lot from you. And so today we're going to talk about Instagram and how your church can utilize Instagram. But before we get into that, I do want to just give you an opportunity to introduce yourself. I know who you are. And we got to have a nice little chat before we hit record. But share with other people who you are and what you do.

Alrighty, so I am a lot of things. I am a mom. I am a church leader. I'm the director of communications at Mount Hermon Baptist Church in West Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I'm also a podcast host, a speaker, fourth generation woman in ministry leading the charge for digital ministry. and um yeah social media manager all that that's awesome what what is your podcast about my podcast is blacklight digital and we are currently working on our second season so it is about basically marketing social media tech and we're really talking about things from perspective of um multi-racial multicultural churches You know, there's a there's a gap that's there that doesn't really speak to how do we translate African American experience or Latino experience online. So we try to make sure that we're talking about those issues and also giving information so that churches of color can participate on this great journey of digital ministry.

That's awesome. That's really exciting. Okay. I'm going to have the links for her show in my show notes. So you can just click on that if you're interested, but that would be fascinating. And again, you're going to be sharing the exponential later on this spring. What are you going to be sharing that exponential about?

Well, I am hosting a networking lunch where we are doing a creative communications masterclass. And so we're taking the guesswork out of the creativity part of communications. We're talking about Instagram, of course. I'm going to bring that to the table. We're also going to talk about how you can use branding and, you know, really refine your messaging and speak to people where they are and help them learn about your mission as well as the gospel.

That's awesome. So if you're listening to this and you're going to be at Exponential, you'll definitely want to check out her networking lunch. You said it's on Tuesday the 8th? Is that what?

Wednesday the 8th from 1230 till 2.

Great. So we'll have a link to Exponential as well, and you can check her out because she's one of the speakers there. So that's great. Okay, so Jen, let's get into Instagram. As I was telling you before, I am not an Instagram guy. I'm a Twitter guy. I love Twitter. It's great. But Instagram, I'm on it, but I don't know much about it. In our church, we're on it. we do some reels and because we heard reels is really good but i don't think we fully know what we're doing in my church and i'm kind of helping out with that so i have you on for selfishly to help me but i also want you to help other people as well so first let's get into it like why do you like instagram so much

Well, my journey with Instagram, I'll just go into a little bit of how I got started. My account is as cold as dirt on Instagram. I am probably one of the first batches of people that joined when they started out in 2012. and you know at first it was just you post a picture and you hope somebody sees it and then you start learning about followers and hashtags oh i've had the hashtags to get followers and so it was very easy to grow it's kind of like the tick tock of 2012. yeah and so um fast forward to 2014 um i moved to atlanta and god just led me to join new birth uh under the uh leadership of Bishop Eddie Long, who was the pastor at that time. And they were struggling with Instagram. So here I was in the pews, loving this big church. And I'm on Instagram taking pictures, posting up little clips of the sermon and just tagging them like, oh my God, you know, here's what I'm doing at New Birth. And they were like, who is this person in the pews that's putting all this content out about her journey at New Birth? And so I started serving in membership development. They asked me to run the social media for that department. Here we go again. Oh my God, who's behind membership development? Social media is great. So they wrote up on me like men in black on a Saturday after our chapel service. And they're like, hey, we've been following you. We need you to run Instagram for the church because we don't know what we're doing. And it was two ladies, they're twins. And they're just like, We know Facebook, we know Twitter, but Instagram, we do not know. So that is how I started out doing digital ministry on Instagram for one of the largest ministries in the world. And it was really fun just taking what I was doing in the pews to now doing it for the bishop in the ministry at large.

That is awesome. And so again, as a minister myself, what I'm hearing you say is that we as church people, as church staffers, we need to be looking at our congregation and seeing who's on Instagram or on social media. If we're looking for someone to run it, there could be someone in your church who loves and is passionate about this, that you just need to ask and invite them to be a part of it. And I love how that was your start in the ministry stuff. But you were just loving Instagram as it was. And then they just utilized that. And now you're who you are today. That is fascinating.

Yes, indeed. And you're absolutely right. You know, I encourage pastors, especially those that I have smaller churches to, you know, save money. You don't have to hire a social media manager to run Instagram. Use one of the young people. That goes for TikTok, Snapchat, whatever you want to be on. Tap into your youth, tap into your millennials. You might have a social media manager in your congregation that doesn't mind serving. and what they do for a living so always check it out and then to answer those tags if your church has a hashtag or if people are adding your church and you see those messages so and so put a story up about you answer that you just never know who you might come across okay wait so let let we'll get into this a little bit what do you mean answer like they put you on the story what do they mean what do you mean to answer you can like comment on it or what they say Yes. So if they put you in their story, it'll come up as a message, excuse me, or a mention. And it'll say so-and-so mentioned you. You can click on their story and you can actually send them a DM and just let them know, hey, I'm so-and-so from the church. I love what you're doing. Keep doing it, you know, or give me a call and we'll see if we can work together to create content.

That's awesome. Again, because Stories is really popular with Instagram, correct?

Yes. Stories, Reels, Carousels, which are the swipable slides that you can post. Really, Reels and Carousels are the top two. But Stories keep your audience engaged. It's kind of like the Snapchat feature of Instagram.

yeah okay so let's get into some of these things okay so initially instagram was a photo sharing app you know where you shared photos and all that kind of stuff and that's just a regular post right but then to do something as a carousel you it's tagging multiple pictures and for one single post is that correct

Yes, multiple pictures or multiple slides. Now I'm going to get into some strategy here. What churches tend to do is just post a bunch of photos and then maybe like a cute little look at this from Sunday and that's it. that is not necessarily how you want to use carousels. You want to use carousels not only to show photos like you can do a baptism lineup and then give some of the story of each person that's being baptized in your caption. That's idea number one. But also you can do sermon notes. Hey, sermon recap from Sunday. Slide one is the title. And then you have slide two, note number one, note number two, number three. You can put up to 10 slides in these carousels.

and that gives people something to read something to blame for that's that's exciting i've never i never thought about using sermon notes as a carousel that's a really cool idea and so is there an like can i do that on instagram or do i need to do it on an app like care canva or some other app and then upload that how would i do that kind of thing

So you would do it. You can actually use Canva, which is something that I use, or Photoshop. And all I do, Canva makes it easy. You can select their square post, which is the 1080 by 1080 post, and then just click. a copy 10 times so that gives you your 10 slides and you put your you know title on the first one and you arrange everything on subsequent slides download it and you have all 10 slides however many uh ready to just upload to instagram in order

That's awesome. And that is a really cool thing, because I've always just thought with Instagram, I just want to share pictures of people doing things. And that's a great thing, which I think it is. But I didn't think about sermon notes. It's a perfect opportunity to do that and encourage people.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, people go to Instagram. I have this formula called the IE squared formula, and that is for inspiration, entertainment and education. So if you keep those things in mind, IE squared, you're never going to fail with your Instagram. You're always going to have content to post and create for them.

OK, say that again. What's the breakdown again? Real quick.

So IE squared is inspiration, education and entertainment.

Nice. OK, so let's. I think sometimes and I battle this every now and then, too, with our social media posts. sometimes i just want to like disciple people i want to encourage people i want to inspire them but i don't think about the fun element of it in the the entertainment thing what what what does that do by you sharing that what does that do for the people who are looking at your instagram so for entertainment um you always want to make sure that it's aligned with your mission

you don't want to go too far out and then it goes viral like has happened to some people um they're dancing and they're doing some kind of crazy lip syncing on reels and it just blows up to 20 000 views and then people are following them for that and it's like well i just took a chance on that that's not what i normally do yeah so you do want to do um entertainment that aligns with your overall mission and you can make it seem um Like it's something by accident where you're like, oh, well, I just stumbled over a speaker at church and I rolled across the floor and ta-da, I'm up. Like you can just make fun of yourself having an accident at church. Or one of the things that I have done is take like behind the scenes clips and just show like the culture of the church. you know pastor joking around um you know playing hopscotch with the kids or jump rope with the kids that's also entertainment yeah people love to see leaders involved with congregations and things like that so Doesn't always have to be so serious. You can also poke fun at your process. You know, if you're the type of pastor that studies at midnight on Saturday night, you can have a video of you studying and pacing around and just have a caption of like, this is what I get for waiting till one o'clock in the morning to get a sermon or when God wakes you up at night and changes your sermon for Sunday morning.

Yeah.

That's a form of entertainment. So there's all kind of different things you can do that align with your mission.

I like what you shared there because I think you highlighted one is it allows people to see the backdrop of what's going on again. People could see you on stage and be like, oh, he's this perfect person or she's this perfect person, never messes up or never does anything goofy. But then you show behind the scenes like, oh, they're just like me. I can relate to them a little bit more. And I think that's good. But I also like how you said, make sure it aligns with your culture. You know, again, you don't want to do something that is so like different from you. That's what I like to say with people on social media. is don't be someone different on social media that you aren't in person. Because then when they meet you in person, they'll be like, oh, that person's like a jerk or that person's this or that. But you want to make sure that your online persona is the same thing as your in-person persona. And same thing with social media. You don't want to do something that is just so far out of your culture that when someone comes to your church, they'll be like, oh, this was not what I was expecting.

right exactly and this is why i also encourage churches to um utilize a photographer you know if you have someone in your congregation that they have a hobby for taking photos and they take good ones you know ask them if they don't mind serving because when you have stock photos that are of your congregation which side note you do want to get a talent release uh you know or let your congregation know with um a disclaimer on screens or on the walls hey we're taking photos during service so once you walk into the sanctuary you're subject to photos because it is a public space yeah um but it's good to have stock photos of your congregation in action in worship show the greeters hugging people show the pastor interacting with people show the musicians playing so that when people come to your social media and even your website they're seeing a realistic view of your church and then if they come to instagram they're looking through oh there's baptisms happening and there's baby dedications happening and picnics happening and family outings and all that stuff and so they're getting that glimpse inside of your culture to where when they show up they feel a sense of familiarity and they don't feel so scared to you know visit and become a part yeah that's great okay so you hit on a few things that i always like how you're sharing stuff i'm like okay let's talk about this a little bit more um you talk about the the the i think you called it the talent um sheet or

no really talent release so do people have to physically sign that or you have to make it a known that hey we're taking pictures you could be you could appear in one of these pictures so it can swing both ways um it depends on how you want to do it um if you want to do something with your website i would say have them sign a talent release physically

And just, you know, go to the members and say, hey, we have these photos. This is a great shot of you in worship. Do you mind if we use it on our website? Have them sign that so that way there's no legal issues. But social media, what we've done at Mount Hermon is we have notices on the wall. so when you walk into the sanctuary you're seeing right there on the door with a big camera and a smiley face smile you're on camera and we let everybody know you're going to be videoed and you might just be photographed you might end up on our social media and that gives us that leeway to do that so then that way people can't say well i didn't know and you know only people say take it down but not me

That's really cool because I know it's a debate with churches like, what do we do? Do we have them sign a waiver? Is there anything around it? So thanks for clarifying that. I like your idea about the sign as they enter the sanctuary because it's right there. Everyone sees it and they know, hey, I could possibly be on. So that's a great idea. I'm going to probably take that and share that with my church. Because that's something we debate all the time. Okay. And the second thing that you said was about the camera. If you know people who are cameras, I always tell people that they can just do it in simple, like with their phone or whatnot. Is there benefit to have people having their own cameras, like a really nice camera and using that for the church?

There is with the iPhone is going to shutter only so much so you're going to get a lot of blurs with it, whereas if you have a high powered camera has a faster shutter and faster. i'm talking photography stuff here, but your F stop is you know work in a certain way, you can set the settings to photography or sports mode. because really you know well depends on what type of church you go to i'm pentecostal born and raised church of god in christ and i'm in baptist church now so we still have um pentecostal flair even in the baptist church so you know people run they jump and so we have to go sports mode because sunday is uh definitely an aerobics course happening in the sanctuary but it allows that faster shutter allows you to get those crisp photos where you're capturing people in action and there's no blur to it

that's good that's great that that's a great distinction again i'm very simple i i never learned how to take pictures with a real camera but there are people in your church that that have one and that you could really utilize them and again they they will probably get really excited about using their camera for god's purposes so i think that's really cool

okay let's let's talk about two other things um uh stories and reels whichever one you want to talk about first but let's talk about the value of doing those uh for instagram for your church okay so let's hit on stories um one of the things that churches don't utilize and it is actually um something that secular brains are starting to move into is called user generated content i like to call it congregation generated content for churches. And this is where you utilize your congregation to create content based on how they're experiencing church. So they're in the pews, they're hearing the sermon. You might have said something that really hit them, encourage them to tweet this, put it in your stories, put it on Facebook. Now they're creating content that alleviates your team from having to do that. Your team can just see it, say, hey, tag us, we'll see it, and then share it.

As a story? As a story, as a tweet, all that. That's awesome. Okay, so you're actively encouraging people at church to take out their phone and take camera pictures and tweet out something. That's awesome. That's very cool.

Yeah, because a lot of times, you know, people take notes and they love what the pastor says. You know, he might have said something that's trendy or, you know, just really hit them in the heart and they write that quote down. i always encourage our congregation really i encourage them through our bishop or our assistant pastor by coaching them to say hey stop tweet this or hey pull out your phone and write this down and post it on your instagram and then they say what they're going to say so when they do that the congregation's like oh my pastor wants me to put this out there sure you know i don't mind telling the world about this quote because it was a great quote

That's awesome because, again, this is where you're fully embracing them to be engaged in what you're talking about and what you're doing. And then they get it out there. Like, again, I think so many times pastors think, you know, limit the distractions. If there's a crying baby, get the baby out. You know, if there's a distraction here, but you're telling them, get out your phone right now and tweet this out. That's awesome.

I mean, our church, we literally are not afraid to be on our phones. In fact, our bishop and our assistant pastor, they are online with us on Sunday mornings. so they're in the chat they're on their phones um you know when one is preaching and the other one's sitting in the congregation they're on the phone in the chat on facebook and uh you know wherever else cheering the preacher on like yeah that was a good word and so it gives the online community a chance to kind of connect with the leadership so i highly encourage that

That's awesome that your bishop and main leaders do that because I still see, and you probably see this as well, there's a lot of ministry leaders, a lot of pastors who refuse to get on social media. Oh, it's too toxic. I can't be on. And I'm like, that's why we need to be on there. We need to shine the light of Jesus. We need to encourage people. And I love that your leaders are actively engaged in social media. I think that's fantastic.

absolutely and you know with social media people are more likely to try things when they hear it from their friends and their family so if you want people to come to your church instead of just you know telling your congregation invite your friends and family to church let them tweet out let them take pictures i encourage people hey take pictures of your sunday outfit we have some very fashionable people in our congregation and so uh you know i'm like hey take pictures and post sunday's best and tag the church we like to share those things in our stories as well you know um and take pictures of behind the scenes stuff if you see something take a photo send it to me i have the musicians they're so funny and i love our band they're totally talented um they set up their phones where they're at and so they're showing different views so yeah the bassist he's playing he's got his phone you have the organist he's got his phone and they will send me clips of them playing so i can share those to the stories and you just hear a little bit of the song maybe like i think instagram has um made the stories longer from like 15 seconds, 30 seconds now. So you get about a 30 second clip in your stories and you're like, oh, the bass is playing really good. Like what song was this? It inspires people to go check out the service.

That's awesome. And again, I like how you said this is congregationally generated content. Again, one of the things that social media people have a problem with is, hey, what do I post? What do I share? And here, you've got people from your congregation sharing it to you, so all you have to do is just post it up there. That's fantastic.

Yeah, and they're also sharing it to their own profile. So their audience sees it, people that follow them sees it, and then we share it. And it actually motivates people when you do that because they feel valued. They feel like they're doing something for their church. So definitely get into the generated content from your congregation.

That's fantastic. And stories, correct me if I'm wrong, they're only up there for 24 hours, correct?

Yes.

So you can post a lot of stories up there, but just know that they disappear after 24 hours. So that's cool. All right, let's go to Reels then. Reels, it's their most recent thing, right? I mean, it's been around for a little bit, but it's the newest feature to Instagram, correct?

yes it is the tick tock of instagram so and speaking of the correlation with stories here's a strategy and idea for you guys so even though stories expires after 24 hours um you can opt to have them archived to your profile so what you can do is you can download your stories after they've expired from the archives and create a reel oh i never knew that So rails are 90 seconds long and your stories, depending on how long they are, you can mix video and photo into your rooms. So if you wanted to, you could do a Sunday recap and have different parts video, different parts photo. See, this is what our Sunday looked like. This is what we have communion Sunday, every first Sunday. So I like to try to highlight different parts of the communion service and put them into a short reel, maybe an audio of Bishop preaching playing underneath it.

That's awesome. Okay, so what do you like about Reels and what's the benefit of that for a church? So Reels is all about reach.

So since is there one thing about instagram when they have a new feature they tend to put a lot of reach and visibility behind it, so if you use it you're going to see more new people. With that feature and with reels churches can use it to do sermon clips um i've cut up, you know, a six minute clip into 90 seconds don't ask me how I did it. But I just went to the best parts and I just pieced together parts and it worked out, thank God. But, you know, those are the ways that you can highlight the sermon from Sunday. You can also highlight a teaching from Wednesday. One of the preachers that I love is Mike Todd. And I actually have some friends that are part of his creative team at Transformation. And I've been off of a little bit of what they do. So, you know, he's teaching and they get that one good point. They always go for that real rich part of the sermon. And then they have the 90 seconds of it and it is done. Then you're like, oh my God, that was so good. I want to go watch the whole sermon. So you can do it as a teaser. You can use it as a recap. Another way to use it, which I have been encouraging and coaching various pastors, is to do more personal reels where it's just them sitting in front of their phone and they're offering an encouragement or they're praying for people, praying for health, praying for finances, or they're offering a scripture of the day, a meditation for the day.

That's awesome. And I will say our church for the past eight months or so, we've done these devotionals per day and we keep them between 60 seconds and 90 seconds. And that's gone really well. And I, because I think there's a. there's at least a preconceived notion that everything that we had to do as a church, video-wise, had to be really polished, really clean. It had to be perfect, sound, light, and everything. And what I think the pandemic showed us was that, and this is my opinion, tell me what you think, but is that people just love, like, people just sitting there talking and being real on their phones. They're on their beds making things and they're going viral just sharing about real life stuff. Has that been your experience too?

Absolutely. You know, the statistics show that raw videos outrank polished professional videos by far. One of my favorite accounts is Rev Chris on Instagram, and he's actually from London.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. He takes his phone on a walk with him every day and he does a sermon in a minute. Wow.

Yeah.

So you're going for a walk, you're seeing the neighborhood behind him and he's moving and he's telling you about the prodigal son. He's telling you about Jesus Feast of 5,000. and how it relates to today's time in a 60 second real and he has blown up from doing that um there's some other ones there's lit for prayer who's also on instagram all he does is pray every day about two or three times he'll post a prayer video or he'll um have a confession video that he puts up and then there's my client um his name is caleb rowe and he's from louisiana and we have been doing confession videos as well faith confessions um confessions over your mind your health and those videos have taken a lot of um They've just taken on a new life. And then he got married in the midst of us working together. And his wife is, you know, pastor's kid. He's also a pastor's kid. So they're kind of building their ministry online. And I told him, I said, you know what? It would be great if you guys did some prayers together. Their video of them praying for other newlyweds took off. They got 15,000 views. Wow. Wow. Just a simple prayer for newlyweds.

Yeah.

So, you know, there's definitely a lot that you can do with groups.

OK, I'm going to ask you to send me after this just some different people to follow to give us encouragement and inspiration. And I'll include that in the show notes for everybody listening so that they can be encouraged by that. Because again, I think when people think about making these reels or doing these things, that they have to be polished and they have to be perfect. And the reality is they don't. I mean, they just people want to see real people. be doing real stuff and they want to be encouraged and i think that's what makes our faith you know our if we have an authentic faith we're sharing the highs and the lows because we know that following jesus is not all peaches and cream you know i mean it's hard

exactly and i mean even tom like when you were saying that part you know about following jesus has his high and lows i'm sitting here like that's a real right there that quick 10 20 seconds could you know literally touch people's hearts and so it's really as simple as that you know just sitting here talking about the life that we have to live and the things that we need to do in our christian walk because people want to know about god and they're looking and they're trying to figure out what is fasting where do i start in the bible you have a lot of new christians online that you could minister to just by telling them okay hey you just got saved awesome that's great here's the first thing you should read in the bible here's the first book that i would recommend you can do stuff like that

That's awesome. That's really encouraging. How would you encourage someone to get started on Instagram? What would you encourage if they're listening to us and like, okay, I'm ready to go. I've been putting this off. I'm ready to kind of go and do this. How would you encourage them?

I would encourage them to just start. and tweak along the way don't worry about being perfect out the gate you know you might look back a year from now and go oh my god i can't believe there but it's okay because at least once you get started then you know that you can have something to look back to i also would encourage you to find three to five people that align with your personality on instagram um and look at what they're doing and just kind of take notes i have this a little method called copy the right cat where so it's okay to be a copycat to a degree you want to add your own flair to it but you want to make sure you're copying the right cat because the way instagram works they align your content with others so for instance with uh caleb we looked at several people um that were similar in tone personality and their message and so i looked at what they were doing i saw okay get thousands of views on this type of content and so i began to coach caleb into doing um you know a certain type of content even having his camera like right here uh you know or on the side and what happened was instagram started recommending his profile and his videos alongside this popular person oh wow that's how their algorithms work. So you watch the popular person's video and then it's like, oh, hey, you watch this video. You like him? Try this person over here. You might like him, too, because he's similar.

That is cool.

Yes.

Dang, I didn't even think about that. But that is very, very cool how that works out like that.

So it's always good to align yourself with, you know, the popular people. And then that's how you get your account to grow.

That's awesome. Okay. This has been fantastic. And I could do a deep dive into a lot of the things you've shared. We're going to have to hold out for another time because I definitely need to have you back on and talk about this stuff. But as we kind of wrap up, how would you encourage someone right now, just with Instagram, you talked about how to get started and whatnot, but how also any final thoughts on that?

I would say, you know, keep going. Keep studying. There are so many different trends that are coming out with Instagram. So always keep your ear to what's happening. You can follow people like Nikki Saunders, who is great with telling what's happening with Instagram. You can also follow Social Media Examiner. which is a great resource for those types of things. And just try the new stuff. Always go for the new features because Instagram loves when you try their new features. They're going to bump you up. They're going to give you more visibility. So definitely when you see something new, keep using it. And also too, if you found yourself plateau, you're like, man, Jen, I was getting some good traction. My reach was growing and now it's just flatline. Don't stop. tweak your method, tweak your presentation a little bit. Look at what other people are doing and kind of take note from them. But please, please, please do not stop. It'll get better.

That is awesome. Okay, let me ask this question. I just thought of this as you were kind of saying, you triggered something in my mind. Should churches do what's trending? What's trending on like, if there's a trending sound or if there's a trending dance or something, should they do that?

um yeah if they can adapt it to their culture and message you know you don't want to get too far out there and uh put out a twerk video that won't translate well but you know there are challenges where you can uh get in on and just use it for um you know to the glory of god

That's awesome. That's great. Well, this has been encouraging to me. I actually have a renewed inspiration now for Instagram after talking to you. Jen, how can people find you or is there anything that you'd like to direct them to before we get off?

Um, of course, you guys can find me on Instagram at Jen, Jenelle, J-E-N-J-A-N-E-L-L. And also my website, geneticmarketing.com. We're still under construction, but you can send me an email through there. And Facebook at Genetic Marketing as well. I am on Twitter. Now, Tom, I'm going to have to pick your brain on Twitter because that's not my thing.

I love Twitter. I do love Twitter.

So yeah, I'm trying to get in the groove on that. And TikTok, I'm finally jumping on there too, at Jen Janelle as well. Of course, Exponential Conference, for those of you that are attending, I would love to see you at the networking lunch on March 8th.

That's awesome. Well, I hope people connect with you a lot. This was great. I loved having you on and I am going to have to have you back on talk about Instagram or something else. I mean, so again, with your marketing expertise, I would love to pick your brain on that as well. So Jen, thanks for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Yes, it's been an honor and a pleasure, Tom.

It was great having Jennifer on. Again, I was just, I really was. I was inspired to do Instagram more effectively for our church. And actually for me as a digital missionary, I was encouraged with the different opportunities I have to reach more people for Christ. But I'm curious for you, what stood out to you? What encouraged you? What challenged you? What ideas do you have going on? Hit me up on Twitter. Hit up Jen on Twitter as well. She's on Twitter, even though she's more Instagram. She's on Twitter and she would love to talk to you a little bit more as well. So hit us both up. Tag me, TAPounder and her. Her links are in the show notes. So tag us. We would love to talk to you and carry this conversation on a little bit more online because, again, Instagram is a very popular social media platform. There's lots of people in there. Let's reach people for Jesus and see what happens. So let's, again, continue this conversation online a little bit more. All right, heroes. Well, thanks so much for being with me today. Thanks for joining me. As always, if you enjoyed the podcast, go and subscribe to it. It's on YouTube. It's on Apple. It's on Google. It's on all the different platforms. And I would love for you to subscribe to it, whatever podcast host you tend to listen to. All right, heroes. Well, I hope you have a great rest of your day, a great rest of your week. And until next time. Have a great one