"Don't Let Me Go": The Desperate Prayer That Healed My Wife and Changed Everything

Romans1014XP: We need to understand that we may also have experiences or traumas that inform our position on either physical or digital. And we need to be careful not to allow those to affect how we shepherd other people. Because if we shepherd other people into that same mindset, right, then we are allowing our trauma to inform our, how we do church. And how we teach others church should be done. Control-Alt-Redeem is for anyone called to ministry in the digital frontier. Gamers, streamers, and everyday believers navigating life online. Each episode equips you to live on mission and the real stories of lives being changed. Reset your expectations, reframe your mission, and redeem the space you're already in. This is where digital ministry gets practical, creative, grounded, and hopeful. One episode at a time.

Flatcap: Welcome in, everyone, to Control-Alt-Redeem. We are resetting the culture and redeeming the space. And Romans1014XP in the house with me today. Welcome in, friend. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's happy to be here. Excited. It is fun to watch the journey that you are on and see the different connections and places that you have been spending time investing in the Twitch ecosystem and the Christians in the space. It's been a joy to watch that because I knew you before you started doing all of that. We ran into each other before then, and it has just been fun to watch what God's doing in and through you, man.

Romans1014XP: Yeah, well, I appreciate that, man, more than you know, because as you alluded to, like, I didn't really know about Twitch until you and I met, right? Like, I knew of it. I knew what it was. You know, I knew that there was a big thing going on in the internet about ninja leaving and going to kick. That's as much as I knew about Twitch, all that craziness that was happening before. But as an opportunity for ministry, as an opportunity to build relationships, to build caring relationships and all that, the way I learned about it when I participated in the Church Digital, met with you guys and everything, that's when it really opened my eyes to what it could be, right? And what God was doing in that space and how, what we were doing as a church plant and just kind of trying to figure out what, how we fit in God's plan for us, just kind of being obedient to him.

Romans1014XP: And then, of course, the way God works with his divine appointments, I run into TCD, all because I was doing a paper and that involved Jay Kranda, right? And Jay Kranda happened to just be speaking, right, last year. I think it was a little over two years ago now, two years ago at TCD. And then I, I found TCD through Jay Kranda's website. And next thing you know, we're here having a conversation about doing Twitch and digital ministry and all this stuff. So, yeah.

Flatcap: Wow. I didn't realize it was Jay Kranda that was the connection point there. Yeah.

Romans1014XP: He was the breadcrumb that connected us. Yeah, he was the breadcrumb.

Flatcap: Isn't that nice when you have small friends like that that could be a little breadcrumb to bring people to connect? But what's the, the beautiful thing in, in digital is really all about that. Of the happenstance to connect with someone, to connect with someone and, and then connect with someone else. And it is truly the kingdom of God working where, where it's, you're, you're, you're far removed from the initial person. You know, that was even the reason why Jay Kranda was on the T on TCD, you know, and then, and then you come in and you and I connect. And then I just happened to be going to, to reach conference and say, Hey man, just like show up. I mean, you're, you're not far away. Hey, you could, you could, you could make it out maybe. And, and, and meet up in person, which was, which was super fun.

Flatcap: I mean, it's one of those things where there, there are, there are several people that I wish I had more time to just go hang out and be part of their ministries. But you know, I don't, uh, to always watch and hear updates of what, what you're doing. And, uh, like, I would like you listening to you as you're talking about, like, I just happened to decide I'm going to go get an IT degree because I've just finished another doctorate. So I'm a doctor over here, but you know, an IT degree would go really well with doctor as well. So why not go do that? Because maybe I can bless somebody in the kingdom. It's like, man, what a, what a great attitude to have towards things.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Well, I appreciate that, man. And it has been like, I'm sure we'll get into it in more detail, but it's, it's been a fun and, and crazy. And I use that word in a positive way year, right? Because, you know, we have reach coming up in a few weeks and reach is really what solidified, excuse me, for my wife and me, that digital and Twitch and like Romans1014XP. And all this stuff that it was definitely, it was definitely a God thing. It was definitely his timing and part of his plan for our ministry. And we took off from there really. And man, and again, I'm not a, I'm not a big streamer. I don't have a huge following and all this stuff, but in the short period of time that God's allowed us into this space is I've seen what he's done. I seen the connections that he's making. And in this short year, it doesn't, it feels like a lot has happened, you know what I'm saying?

Romans1014XP: And so I'm just really thankful. I'm just really thankful to be along for the ride, you know?

Flatcap: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's where, you know, watching it, it's like, I've been sitting back waiting, waiting, going, okay, when, when do I get Romans on? Because the journey, the journey that you're on, you know, started before a reach conference. So I normally just start like, where, where did you get into Twitch and that, but you really, you know, was me introducing you to Twitch and talking about that because you were talking about church planting. And we had, we were doing a course together and going through, you know, how to make digital disciples and being a digital missionary and equipping digital missionaries, all of those types of things.

Flatcap: And it was just like, you were just like soaking this in and, uh, and we were having conversations about what I was doing, which was over on Twitch and, and over there and, and brought you in and, and, but talk about the, the call to plant a church that then ended up being, wait a minute. What is, maybe it's not a physical church. Maybe it's digital ministry.

Romans1014XP: Well, I got to give, I got to give credit, obviously all glory to God, but it gives something like earthly credit to my wife because she knew years ago that we were going to plant a church and I told her she was crazy for those that, uh, those that know me know that, that I'm, I joked that I'm a recovery lawyer. I was a lawyer for 20 for 20 plus years before I transitioned into ministry full time. Now the gray area in between those two, I was a small group leader, uh, trainer and stuff like that, because that was my compromise with God. I knew I was called to kind of do this full time or do ministry full time, but I, I was like, like the rich young ruler, like, tell me what I got to do to sell everything, give all that up. And I was like, no. And I just turned around and I was like, I love my life too much. Sorry, God, but I will do this instead. So that was happening.

Romans1014XP: And my wife is like, he'll come around as she continued to pray. But yeah, finally, it's, um, we had some personal things happened. Um, you know, I knew where God, I, we moved to Florida and, uh, because I, I, I needed to leave law, nothing against the industry, the profession. I'm love. I'm, I'm proud of the 20 years God gave me in that space to learn what I needed to learn for what I do now. But the person that I was that really drove me towards that career, that was very inward bound thinking and very acquisition based and wanting to live a certain lifestyle, own certain things, have a certain gravitas to myself. It was all about me. I wanted to be the, the, uh, the, you know, main character in my own story. I needed to distance myself from that as much as possible.

Romans1014XP: And so I realized that that environment just was, I, God had me there for a season, a long season, 20 years, like, you know, like, like friends, you know, that's a series. It was a long season, but I learned what I had to learn there. God did what he needed to do there with me. And it was time to move on. So, uh, the company that I was with, thankfully they had a remote position that had to do with coaching and training people and, and how to be good leaders and active listeners and how to develop other people. And I was like, man, that, that kind of fits more in line with what I'm doing in small group and training small group leaders at our local church. I really liked that. It really fits what, what God's really brought out in me. So I transitioned into, into that role at the secular level.

Romans1014XP: And as I'm working on those skills and building those relationships and building those muscles that I thought was going to be my career, little did I know that God was saying, okay, let's focus. I mean, he was just kind of pruning things and helping me develop those muscles for what he had planned next. Next thing you know, it was Christmas a couple of years ago, just before Christmas a couple of years ago, my wife was pre-diagnosed with breast cancer and I, like I was devastated. She was devastated, but her faith. She's always been like a role model to me because her faith was always, always steadfast. Like she worried because she's human, but she was like, it's in God's hands. And I was like being typical husband, father, and more Thomas than anything. I was like, well, yeah, it's in God's hands, but what do I got to do to try to make this happen?

Romans1014XP: And I was, her faith allowed me to not surrender to that part of me.

Flatcap: Well, and there's, there's something too, like you want to take care of your spouse. Like, like what, what do I got to do to fix this? How do I, I like, it is so horrible when it is a medical issue because what, what am I going to do? Like I can't, I can't fix it. I have to solely rely on my faith, trust in God to allow him to be the, the one that sees it through the other side versus I'm, I'm the husband. I want to fix everything. I'm the dad, I want to fix everything, you know, when it comes to health stuff, I can't, I can't do a thing. So I totally get the, the mentality of wanting to, to like, what do I do? What, just give me the list of things. I'll make this better. And there is no list to make, to do things better. It's given to God and trust him to, to, to bring it to the other side.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. And it was, it was in retrospect, I didn't realize it at the time, but it was a, it was revisiting. I grew up in the church, so to speak. I grew up, I grew up Catholic and my relationship with God early on in my life was very transactional and it was very, you know, the way I was taught nothing against it. I'm not saying this is what, that this is what the Catholic church teaches. I'm just telling you the Catholic church I was exposed to, the culture I was exposed to, the way I perceived relationship with the father was very Santa Claus. Like you do good, you get good. You do bad, you get bad. Like, you know what that means. Right. But, um, you know, you do good, you get good. And, and, and so I didn't, I, that's the way I saw it. So I had to, as long as I checked the boxes, I'll, I'll be rewarded. That was the mentality I had.

Romans1014XP: Then my father passed away when I was 22, um, a congestive heart failure. And my whole family kind of like, it broke apart. That broke our family. And at the time I left my relationship with God because I was like, we did all the things out. I was an altar boy, good student, good person, all those things that you asked me to do. I did. And this is how you repay me. So I, that's the way I, I, I, I had a very false view of the gospel, so to speak. And so when I left, I left him because of that medical thing and his ultimate, when he ultimately when he died, then fast forward, uh, all these years later, when my wife is pre-diagnosed with breast cancer, that allowed me to realize the work God done in me when I finally came back to him, because instead of running from him and instead, I remember gives you to your initial question, like how, how did church planting?

Romans1014XP: Well, when I found out that she was pre-diagnosed with breast cancer, there was a point where I went on a fast. And if you see me, know me, you know, me and fasting don't exactly go together. Right. But I went on a fast and on day three of that fast, I remember it was like two, three in the morning, I got down on my knees while she was sleeping. And I just remember praying to God saying, obviously God, I, I pray for her healing. If this is what she has, uh, but it's your will, not mine. You know, what I do ask father is that whatever happens, if it's your will, that she comes to you sooner than we want, don't let me go. I don't want to leave you again. Even if I, even if it's kicking and screaming, keep me with you, because I remember what it was like to not have you and I don't want to be there again.

Romans1014XP: And so all those years later, uh, you know, 20 plus years later, and it, it showed me how much the Holy spirit, how he, the Holy spirit changed my heart where it, I realized that the important thing was stay connected to the father, even in trials and tribulations, right? Even in something like that, even if it was his will for my wife to have breast cancer, then I just want to somehow glorify him through that. If that's even possible. Right. And so at the end of that prayer, I remember saying, God, I know what you want from me. I've been kind of kicking it around and kind of playing coy. But my life is yours, whatever it is, whatever happens with this diagnosis, whatever my life is yours, man. I'm, I'm, I'm not running anymore. And I kid you not Flatcap the next morning, if that was three in the morning, it was like eight 30 in the morning.

Romans1014XP: My wife calls me from her job saying, Hey, the doctor called, they got the biopsy back. It was a false, a false positive. I had, apparently she has so many other things going on, like between like iron deficiencies and blah, blah, blah. I ain't the doctor, but she has so many other things that gave the illusion of breast cancer that they were already talking about. This is how we're going to treat. This is what happens this time, blah, blah, blah. It was like almost like a, it's just going to happen. And then they're like, Oh, it's not breast cancer. And at that moment, I had not told my wife about the prayer before and the fasting. But at that moment I was like, well, sometimes you need God to, you know, punch you in the stomach for you to get it. And, um, man, I feel it. And I see, I hear it. And then thankfully I called my boss, uh, about a week later.

Romans1014XP: I, thankfully she was a believer and she said, you got to be obedient. I get it. I've had family members go through something similar in being obedient to their calling. And she says, how long do you need? And I was like, what do you mean? Well, how long do you need to save money for so that you can kind of have like a buffer? Cause I know that's, that's going to be a big pay cut to go from like six figures to like, whatever, like nothing almost. And I was like, I don't know, three months, four months to kind of, and so I can have my benefits to take care of some things that she said, you got it. She's like, focus on your chaplaincy. Cause I had applied for a part-time chaplain role as kind of like first steps, got that role. And she said, do your chaplain thing and stay on the books here, do whatever work you can, but focus on, on your ministry.

Romans1014XP: And, and that allowed me to kind of like transition into full-time ministry where I left that job. And then we started our cha, I started the chaplaincy work. And then that's where my wife and I, when we, when we looked back at our testimony of how we were saved and how, how we grew in our faith, we realized that community and having a community of believers around you was instrumental in not only in our coming to Christ, but also in our discipleship. And therefore we were going from church to church saying like, what's missing? And I know you and I have had this conversation and when we saw that it was relationship for us is what got us in. Then we said, well, let's, what if we planted a church that was based on relationship and that intimate setting of the home? And she was like, I, that's what God wants. And so we planted life on mission church.

Romans1014XP: The idea of, of it being a hybrid traditional church in the sense that there would be an overarching structure for accountability purposes, it's resources, et cetera, an overarching structure to a network of house or micro churches or organic churches. There's so many different terms for that. Yeah. So kind of like kind of combining the best of both worlds, right? The, the intimacy and relationship and ease of, of, of, of planting, right? It's less, less, less friction in planting a house or micro church with the benefit of oversight of a, a uniform, a set of beliefs and accountability that come with being attached to a traditional church. And so that's how life on mission was born through obviously the Holy spirit.

Romans1014XP: And my wife and I went and earned our doctorates, as you alluded to earlier, she focused on church, ministry leadership, and I focused on discipleship with the idea of like, how do you, how do you build discipleship in a digital space? That was what I focused on during those 18 months. And that's where you and I met is when I was kind of towards the latter end of that program. And then I was writing a paper for that program, learned about TCD because of Jay Kranda, because the, you know, the online church is not the answer. His book is something that I like leaned on quite a bit and that, like I said, introduced me to TCD. I saw there's a class you can take. So I met you and here we are.

Flatcap: Yeah. No, that's, that is quite, quite the journey. And I, I love the little points along the way where it's like, oh man, this is a fork in the road. You don't know it's a fork in the road. You, you, you just think this was a speed bump. Uh, this, this was not a speed bump. This was a, your life is different after this moment because you have. Turned and you've gone in a different direction. Yeah. I, the number, the number of pastors that I know whose spouses have health issues. Like I, I can't even count how many, I mean, I just, it just seems like there are a lot of those that whether, whether it is God using that to draw us into ministry or it's, we're in ministry and that's an attack of the evil one coming against us to say, will we stay faithful in ministry?

Flatcap: I've, I've seen all kinds of different ones of those, but in all of them, whether it's the evil one coming against us or not, God still, you can, and does use it for good. And, uh, you know, the, uh, what a, what a beautiful comeback around to the, I struggled with my faith. My dad passed away. Now I have a chance of losing my wife. Will I lose my faith again? You know, that's, that's boy, dark, dark moment of the soul there. And, uh, I'm, I'm not surprised at all that it was three days. The third day of the fast. I mean, I, there's, to me, there is something that happens in day three of a fast. I like what, if I'm just going to say, I'm going to do a fast, it's usually going to be a three day fast. Like that, that for me is the sweet spot, both spiritually and physically of, of going through a fast.

Flatcap: I do, I'll do longer ones, but that, that third day for me really is, uh, an enlightening aspect of meeting God or God meeting you, those kinds of things. It's, uh, it's a fantastic experience. So if you're not a faster, I, I, I love to talk about fasting. Anybody who's here, hit me up another time. We'll talk about that. Don't want to turn the podcast into it, but I didn't want to let it go, go past without pointing that out. That also I take the approach of learn how to fast for your physical health and then apply it spiritually. Cause Jesus assumes that people were already fasting when he tells us to fast. If you've never fasted, all you're going to be doing is thinking about food, food, food, food, food. So figure that out before you try to do it spiritually. And also I'm, I'm not a doctor. Go consult your doctor. If you have any health issues before doing any fasting.

Romans1014XP: Oh, absolutely. See the lawyer in me was going to make sure we had that disclaimer there. So don't worry about it. But it's fun. You say the three days, obviously, you know, being the Bible scholar, you are like that. This three is an important number biblically. Right. And so I did that emphasis that comes with, with, when, when the number three is mentioned. However, I also joked that my plan was to fast for a week, but I joked that God saw me. It was like, bro, you ain't gonna last a week, bro. Let me, let me hit you with what you need now. Day three. So we can move on, you know, but, um, yeah, but it was definitely the fast. And like I said, I don't fast, but I was on social media that whole week. And I kept on getting reels and feeds and everything about fasting and the importance of fasting for your spiritual life. And I was like, all right, I get it. Let me, let me try this, man.

Romans1014XP: Cause like I said, uh, we weren't, I was in a place where I was like, I, I just need to lean on you. If fasting is the answer or, or at least the fasting is part of what I need to do. And so be it. But yeah, thankfully, thankfully I did. Not that that's the reason why, but you know, thankfully. You're being obedient to the spirit.

Flatcap: I was being obedient to the spirit's leading. I got a problem. I'm seeing this. Maybe this will help me. I know that the scripture says to go do it. Let me try it. You know, it, there's, you know, a lot of, a lot of beauty in doing that. Uh, I, I will often plan, you know, a three to five day. I haven't done, I think 10 is the longest I've done, but I had planned to do a 14 day and my wife was not at home, which is usually when I choose to fast is when she's not home. I got around day 10 and there's water fast. There's dry fast. I always do liquid. I don't, I don't do dry fast. Just, I don't want to get dehydrated. Those things. Uh, I hit day 10. I could not even drink water. And if people know they watch me, I've got tea in front of me all the time. I'm, I'm, I'm a constant consumer. I did not drink. And I was worried if I went to bed dehydrated, I would not wake up.

Flatcap: So I broke the fast and said, God, you know, I'm going to just dedicate the rest of it to you, but I'm going to make sure my health is okay. I'm not sacrificing, you know, that to prove I can go longer because I wasn't fasting for that to here's the spiritual thing that I'm bringing to you, God. It was that second week was, I just want to see how long I can fast. I I'm enjoying this. I want to stay in this state. And it was like, Oh wait, I think I'm in a pride section here to push this further as opposed to break the fast. And so I, I broke the fast to make sure my health was okay.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Probably a good idea, especially when the, the heart posture behind it changes, even the slightest, right? It's like, Oh yeah.

Flatcap: Uh, so with the, uh, with the church plant, how much stuff has been, have you been able to bring into that church plant that you've done and started as a home, you know, we're in person here. How much have you been able to bring digital into that? Or is the digital piece that you've done in discipleship stayed separate from the church?

Romans1014XP: First and foremost, we knew that digital and in-person had to be one, the same when it came to, we are life, our mission church. We did, we wanted to see it as two doors, same building. Right. We felt that was very important. And that is kind of what like the Jay Kranda is even like in our, in our, uh, our, our conversations together at TCD and everything. Sometimes that bifurcation is where sometimes you're causing, you're causing a friction that doesn't necessarily need to be there. Right. In our model, we knew pretty early on that digital had to play a role because the question, the question came up, well, how are we going to connect potentially a house church in Ocala, Florida with the house church in Long Island, New York, and in Detroit, Michigan? Like how are they going to stay connected? How are we going to have accountability?

Romans1014XP: How are we going to share resources, all these things? So there's going to be some sort of digital component, whether that was an app, whether that was whatever we didn't, we knew that digital was going to be, um, obviously the Holy Spirit is the glue, but the Holy Spirit was going to lose, use digital to keep us all connected. So we knew that was going to be a thing. And so we knew that when we said hybrid, we also meant hybrid, digital, and IRL, right? Hybrid, digital, and in person. Um, so we knew early on, what was that going to look like? I wasn't a hundred percent sure. We knew that getting an app, we knew that streaming, trying to post as much content, but that was all stuff for people to consume versus a place for people to, to gather in community.

Romans1014XP: And that's kind of where, again, divine appointment is when I came across TCD and learned about the different ways that digital could be used to, to not only give information, which a lot of us, that's the first step we go to when we think digital, we think to give information, to feed information, but it's also a place, uh, you know, we give information, we get information, information, but the trick really is, well, how do we create a community where there is relationship happening consistently, right? And constantly the way, like, how do we build X242 in a digital space? Right. And so that was really what my, when I was studying for my doctorate is like, well, how do we do that effectively? Right. Um, and, and so that's, we knew to your point, we knew that digital was going to be important to, to bring that vision to fruition.

Flatcap: Yeah, I love that. And one of the things that we say around TCD all the time is their content has to lead to community, whatever you're producing has to lead to community. Otherwise you are just producing for something, for somebody to consume. And if you're just creating consumers, you know, we've, we've got a lot of consumer Christians out there. Uh, they know a whole lot, but if you go look at the fruit on the tree, there's no fruit on the tree because all they are is a consumer. Uh, and to kind of go to your point earlier, maybe they're, maybe they view their faith as transactional. And so they see the thing that they're supposed to do is gain more knowledge, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and that kind of, uh, aspect of doing things versus being in relationship with other believers.

Flatcap: And my relationship is the catalyst for me to live out my loving my neighbor and who is my neighbor. Well, those I know and those I don't yet know, uh, that's, that's how I like to frame who's my neighbor. Cause that's, that's how Jesus told the story in some ways. Who's my neighbor, everybody, you know? So that is, uh, I love the aspect there of the content leading to community and having a hybrid model of that, of, you know, cause digital, like there's people who grow up and they've never known a world without a smartphone. Um, I'm old enough to know a world with black and white TV and two, you know, three channels and get up and turn the dial and yet, yet, if we want to reach the people who are different than us, we have to learn the culture that they're in and we have to do the things that are going to reach them where they are.

Flatcap: I, I, I'm, I'm working on this and, uh, love to get your feedback when I, when I, when I get done with it, uh, I'm working on looking at the idea of how much Paul was an innovator of taking the technology of the day and remote discipleship is what he was doing. And a lot of people are like, no, no, no. He wrote letters like, yeah, he did remote discipleship. Uh, so all we're doing is we're doing a modern version of remote discipleship and we're discipling via zoom calls, via discord, via Google meet, via, you know, whatever aspect we can to live about that legacy that he gave us of, I, I become all things to all people to win some.

Romans1014XP: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, is digital for everyone? No. But to your point, being all things to all people, I love how I forget the chapter in Acts, but, um, I always tell people that like God's words are not placed in certain places. Like it's not, it's not happenstance. It's not accidental. Right. And when you read in the book of Acts, uh, where the, where Paul is, is ministering to the Jews and then to the Greeks, they're within the same like chapter and like paragraph or this same chapter or, or subsequent chapters. But the point is that they're, they're right next to each other. Yeah. And it shows you that he was doing the same thing with two different people groups, but his approach just changed. Right. Yeah. And so I love that as an example of that exact phrase, because it really puts it in context of his miss, his mission never changed. Right.

Romans1014XP: He was still being obedient to the father. He was still being obedient to God's word and the teachings of Christ, but he knew that he had to approach two different people groups differently. And if we look at IRL folks and, and digital folks in that regard, it, it leads to the same conclusion, right? What you and I do in the digital space is just as obedient to God's word is just as obedient to the mission he called us to do, but we adjust our approach based on the recipient of the content that we are providing. Right. And so that it really is no different. And so I, I love the idea that we, how at TCD, we call ourselves missionaries, right? And, and that word, it's so important because a lot of us that are missionaries are also pastors pastors or ministers or, or, or reverends, or we're discipling people in a church setting.

Romans1014XP: And when I say church, I mean, biblically, we're discipling people in whether it's your small group, your, your local body, whatever that is for you. But the way that we approach, for example, accountability in, in a, in a relationship that's already established, right? In a church setting is very different than the way we approach relationship as a missionary. Uh, we look at missionaries, they go to other countries and the first thing they do is literally build bridges, right? Build wells. They, they do all these things. They love on the people that they're ministering to. Um, and then once they built caring relationships, then they've earned the trust to have conversations about the good news of Jesus Christ in a non-threatening manner. Right. And, and, and so that is the, that's the missionary mindset versus the pastoral mindset.

Romans1014XP: Although we're still focusing on the relationship, but the pastoral mindset can be a, Hey buddy, we got to talk about some things in your life, right? I love you. But, and I already built that equity to have that conversation, but we can't jump into a missionary relationship and immediately go into like, Hey buddy, you got to change this about your life because you haven't built the equity, right? You haven't built that caring relationship that fosters the trust to have that vulnerable conversation. You know?

Flatcap: Oh yeah. And there's, there's something, I don't know if, if it's unique to the people that are in digital space or they are just open to that idea of platform as place of, I am going into this. I do need to learn the culture here. I do need to build credibility here because when, and maybe there's just a barrier that comes down in digital space, because if I've worked with churches in person and we're going to go do some mission work, whatever it is, there's a whole group of people that will never see themselves as open to that. And they won't view themselves as a missionary. They will view, I'm going to go do a task or we're going to go hand out water. If it's that, we're going to go feed the homeless. We're going to go share the gospel. And then as quickly as I can, I'm going to go back to life versus people in digital spaces are no, no, no. This is, this is who I am.

Flatcap: I'm a person sharing the gospel in this dark and lonely place where people are lost and lonely. And so I'm bringing the light. So I am a missionary. It's, it's a, it's an, a, I, and not everyone will use the title, but in, in approach and mindset, they're very up to, yeah, let me view myself as a missionary or take on the mindset of a missionary, exploring the culture, learning who's here, building credibility, serving people first, and then finding a way to share the gospel. When they ask me, why, why are you doing all this? Why do you care about me? Why? Because, well, because other people care about me. And one of those people is Jesus. And, uh, you know, I wouldn't be where I am without him and I wouldn't be where I am without other people. And so let me just share what he's done. You know, whatever your story is.

Flatcap: And, you know, if it's, you know, more, uh, here's what my life was before it was a mess and now it's cleaned up. It doesn't have to be that, but you know, you share your encounter with Jesus, the people and, and, and point them back to him. And it's like, man, that is so powerful. And yet, you know, we already know that to do that. And yet in physical life, very few people are doing it in digital life. The barrier seems like I can do this. It's not as hard as I thought. Uh, and I don't know if it's always a matter of, well, you're a stranger until we get to be friends. So we're trying to get to be friends first. Whereas in person, it feels like maybe the time is, is, uh, shorter. I got to do it now. I got to push through. I got to get to that instead of investing in the person first. I don't know. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. No, I mean, I had this conversation with a, uh, I have a family member who's also a pastor and, and our approaches are different. Right. Uh, and also as a chaplain, I have chaplain friends that are very much like, and I, and I, God bless them, man. I do. I was not gifted. Like some of my chaplain buddies, they could go pump gas. And by the time they walk into 7-Eleven to pay and come out, they've had seven gospel presentations. Yeah. Yeah. You know, bless those people. That's just not who I am. I'm, I'm the quote unquote slow burn. I'm the relationship to conversation person. Like our, the chaplain organization I'm a part of has a, um, their, their motto that I've kind of, that we use at, at life on mission and, and our Twitch ministry is to build caring relationships with the hopes of earning the trust to share the good news of Jesus Christ in a non-threatening manner.

Romans1014XP: That's their motto. And so it starts off with build caring relationships. So if you don't do that, everything else it's, it's, it's then right. It's like, it's conditional. And so therefore that's the approach that we take is build caring relationships. And the, the, what I love is that the build caring relationships is the part that you and I have the most control over and everything that comes after that is all on God.

Flatcap: Oh yeah. Right.

Romans1014XP: You know? And so let me just focus on what I got to do. Like, it's like, God has this, like, it's like the, like the, the, the comedy shows and stuff when they like, let me show you this list. It's like a huge list. Well, that's God's. He gave me, he gave me a post-it that says build caring relationships. I could do that. You know, I build the caring relationships that he provides the opportunities to be courageous enough and have the discernment to, to see the opportunity and have those conversations and let God do the work. You know? And so like, that's, that's one of the, I'm not gonna say it was the hardest thing to learn, but I'll say it's the most, one of the more impactful things that I've learned. Cause I think when you first get into ministry, you're so gung-ho and this is not just ministry.

Romans1014XP: Let me say, I think when you first come into a relationship with Christ, you're so gung-ho. About, about what you've learned and you're so gung-ho about like others need to know this and experience this, that sometimes you can come across a little overbearing, you know, and you mean well. Um, but I think one of the things that I had to learn was like, slow your roll. God does the converting and the convincing, bro. You just have to build a relationship with them and let, let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

Flatcap: Yeah. Yeah. I, I love, uh, I think it's Peter that says, always be ready to give a reason for the hope that you have.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. I think that's first Peter 3, 14 or something like that.

Flatcap: I was thinking it was that, but I couldn't remember if it was first or second Peter. I, I used to, I love that one. I used to be really good at, at Bible quoting and, uh, I've just got, not me. I just know that one.

Romans1014XP: I know that's one of the, that's one of the few that I know because it informs our ministry.

Flatcap: Well, like I said, when I grew up, the church I grew up in the citation proved, you know, your status in some ways of, of your faith and your faithfulness to Christ. The more scriptures you could quote with the citation, not just paraphrases, like showed your spirituality. And so as a pastor, I have just tried to never do that to people. Absolutely. I, even if I'm confident in the, the passage, I'm more inclined to say, Paul said this, Peter said this, John said this, and just leave it at that. And, and, and just so that if you want to go check me, you know, who I'm talking about, you know, and, and not to, to try to show off in, in any way to show I'm better than anyone. Cause there's certainly so much. I don't know, you know, it's, it's fascinating, you know, just, you know, getting a doctorate, which I've looked at a couple of times and God hasn't let it happen.

Flatcap: And now I figure it probably won't ever happen. Of course, I keep saying that and probably in 10 years, he'll say now's the time. And I'm like, I don't want to now, but that whole aspect of engaging and learning, you know, is so tempting to just let it be, well, then give accolades to me or I'm better than you, but man, I'll tell you what, being in digital space, I, I feel a whole lot of, I am inadequate where it's the, I'm always messing up. I'm always going to like, we were trying to get the sound and all that before we got rolling here. It's like, yeah, that just happens, you know, probably, you know, one out everything podcast that's that, you know, you miss it. If you're not here when we start and you're listening later, you miss all of that. Sorry. I edited it out. But if you're here, you got to be a joyful behind the scenes before we get started. So, yeah.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. But that's just part of the process. I mean, like, like we joke all the time in the Twitch verse, like if, if you're not having tech difficulties, are you even a streamer? Right. Like it is what it is, you know? And, and I just, I remember freaking out at the beginning. Yeah.

Flatcap: Talk about you getting started on Twitch. Why don't we, why don't we shift to that?

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to, in case there's anyone out there that is aspiring to stream, et cetera, I would say that a, something I did, I don't even know, it might've been like advice you gave me or something that was just like, I just intuited, but spend time on Twitch before you even turn that camera on for the first time, like spend time going into, that's what I did for like maybe six months or longer. I was just in and around different communities, building relationships, right. Being part of other people's streams, being a con and not just like observing, but being a contributing member, uh, in people's chats and, and getting to know people and learning the culture of Twitch, building those, those connections, networking, seeing why did I stay in this person's like community? Why am I still listening to so-and-so and not this one or, or whatever it is.

Romans1014XP: And like learning from that, but also I think more importantly, building those relationships so that, so that when you do feel that God's like, all right, you're ready. You have a group of people behind you, supporting you and rooting for you. And it definitely makes the, the, that initial journey a lot easier. And I, and I say that to, to continue to answer your question about, tell me how it started. Well, it started all, I'm you talking about Twitch during, man, I'm, I haven't, what's the, I forgot the name. What's the name of the course that we took with TCD? Uh, I don't want to like be dismissive about it.

Flatcap: Well, I'm trying to remember, was it the EDM course? So you could be digital missionaries. Okay. Yes.

Romans1014XP: It was EDM.

Flatcap: I couldn't remember if it was that, or if it was the precursor to it. That's why I couldn't remember if it was. Okay.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. It was EDM. So during EDM, you mentioned Twitch and how, and how that's become kind of a slice of the pie of your, of your ministry. And I was like, oh, that's, that's one of the pieces that's missing for what we're trying to do at Life on Mission Church. I got to check this out. And so I remember I, I just went on Twitch and started, started absorbing and learning and, and more importantly, connecting with people and getting them, getting to know them and them getting to know me. And then when I was finally ready to be like, yo, I think, I think I want to do this. I remember talking to you about it and all the tools you need and all this stuff. And I remember at first being like, this is crazy.

Romans1014XP: And then when I finally got the tools, I remember I spent like, I had like one or two streams that I don't count as my first streams because I literally was just like, all right, man, you got to be willing to fail and succeed. And so I just remember turning stuff on the first time I ever went on, man, I tell the story at the time because it's, it's funny, but it's so indicative of the community that we're in. I'm on, and I want to give a shout out to like, like it's Mr. B, like he's on at nights and he does Bible study all the time. He's one of the people that was on all the time with having like theological talks with playing games, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. And I remember when I said, I'm going to streaming and he was like, okay. And there were some people in his community that were really encouraging me.

Romans1014XP: And so I remember sending a message in his discord that, yeah, you know what? I think I'm just going to jump on today. Why not? Just, I just want to see how this stuff works. I got to, I got to push buttons to learn how to push buttons. And so I went on and the first time I go on, I got right. He raided me with his community. Oh yeah. And no one was, no one was talking. Right. And I'm like, man, I'm boring. That one is chatting. What is going on? And like, I didn't realize that an option in Twitch is like subscriber chat only. And I was like, somehow the default, it was on. Right. And I'm like, I'm like bugging out. And I'm like, wow, I suck at this. Thank God I did this now. Cause it would have been horrible later. But anyways, they were, they, they whispered me through Twitch and they were giving me like troubleshooting with me in whisper until I figured it out.

Romans1014XP: And then they were all chatting in there. And I love that because, um, first of all, it was an example of how I built those relationships. And then when I decided to first say, I'm gonna try this, people started showing up to support me. But then as, as I was bombing on stage, so to speak, they were like, bro, we got you. And they were like, like basically tutoring me through whisper while I got that stuff going. And so it was like, I did one or two of those streams until I was like, okay, I made as many mistakes as I could. I needed those. And then I started saying, okay, now let me get the lights. Let me get through this. Let me get that. Let me get things, things ready. And then you introduced me to warrior of light, right? You introduced me to blessing boat and was like, you know, if you're interested, you should check out blessing boat.

Romans1014XP: They help, you know, beginning streamers and, you know, Christian streamers. And I was like, yeah, I'll give it a shot. Let's see what happens. And I reached out to warrior and he's like, you know, lo and behold, he had a spot open the following month. And I'm like, all right, I'll do it. So anyways, my first stream, my first official stream was like 10, seven. And, and this is not indicative of like how quick things happen, but I just want to show you that I think it was the investment of time beforehand that helped me up. 10, seven was my first stream. Then whatever the first Saturday was after the next Saturday was like blessing boat or something like that. And then I did blessing boat, got introduced to a whole bunch of other like Christian streamers and just Christian Twitch folks. And by an October 18th, I made affiliate. Like it was like in 10, 10 days or so.

Romans1014XP: And it was not like, again, I'm not, that's, it's like, like the investors tell you, like prior performance is not indicative of future results.

Flatcap: You know, you're trying to, you're trying to put the disclaimer on there. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. It was to go back because, and not everyone has to do it this way because there are, I know I have plenty of streamers who they just went live. They didn't know anything about it. And they did that. And that can be their journey. And that can be fantastic. But some of them weren't planning on doing this as ministry, right? If you are intending to do this as ministry, you absolutely should be exploring the culture and building relationships before you are inviting people to come watch you. And, and you did that. And, and one of the, one of the absolute proof that you had built relationship was when they raided, they didn't just go, oh man, this guy doesn't know what he's doing. He, he, he, he, I can't even chat in here. I'm not going to sub to him just to be able to tell him that.

Flatcap: And then everyone left like the investment in relationship was there and they cared about you. So they stayed to help it turn out well. Now you still have the, the great story of it was awful and all of that, and they got to be part of it. But the relationship is, is increased in that joint together coming alongside of and helping, which, which is just, if you're just trying to do this for your own promotion, it doesn't happen that way. Yeah. It really, it really is the building of the relationship around others and that investing in them that made them willing to invest back in you.

Romans1014XP: Yeah, it really is giver's game, right? It's the more you focus on, on building other people up, building other platforms up, being a, a contributor to other people's streams. Then it, it, again, it's not that you do it for this reason, but it just so happens that that's the way, at least the Twitch Christian community, my experience has been in the year I've been doing this is that the more you give to those in your community, whether it's those that come chat, right? The more you invest in getting to know them and remembering what they're going through, praying for them. If you say you're going to pray for someone, either stopping and doing it right there or making sure you remember to do it.

Romans1014XP: Following up with people in Discord because you haven't seen them in a while, the more you focus on other people, then the more, the more your platform is growing because you're building equity with those folks. The more I go to other people's streams, not just to get a shout out, you know what I'm saying? Like it's not to be like self-serving that way, but going into other people's streams to say hi, to say what's up, even if it's just for a quick, you know, like a lot of like my classes, a lot of my stuff, like using our relationship, for example, like you stream early in the morning, I have a lot of things during that time that I can't just sit there and listen for the whole time. When I do have the luxury of doing that, I will. And I've been there, but other times it's just like, yo, what's up, Flatcap? Just coming to say hi, thanking you kind of a thing, right?

Romans1014XP: And even that can go a long way in just like maintaining these relationships, which again, going back to the whole digital thing, when it comes to, if we go back to COVID times, and I apologize for, that's like a cuss word for a lot of people when you say that, but I don't know when I was training managers and other leaders in the business world, one of the things that we realized is that when it came to water talk, shooting water cooler talk, when it came to those random conversations you had at someone's office or cubicle, those weren't going to happen by happenstance. Now you had to be intentional, right? And proactive about those conversations.

Romans1014XP: And so when everybody went remote and worked from home, then as managers, leaders, even co-workers, we needed to be proactive and intentional about building in those happenstance conversations, the water cooler talk, the how was your weekend and how, you know, oh, let's talk about the fantasy football thing that you just lost in this weekend that I beat you in, right? Those kind of like personal conversations, you had to be intentional about it. And in digital, it's especially, this is all relationship-based and what we're trying to do as digital missionaries, you have to be really intentional and proactive about not only planting and building the relationship, but maintaining it like throughout, like take the time, man.

Romans1014XP: Even if you can only go in and spend 15 minutes in someone's chat, someone's stream, if you have an extra tab open, if you have it, like just kind of go back, whatever it is, man, try to make that investment, especially if you're a streamer, because I know a lot of folks that they build their relationships. I'm not shouting anybody out, but if you build a platform and people are coming to see you and now that you've gotten what you wanted and now you withdraw from, from like spending time with others and then you wonder why there's a downward tick in your viewers or your engagement or whatever it is, it could be because you stopped that, like that circular motion of, of, of givers gain, right?

Romans1014XP: And you need to continue giving and being part of the community because that's how this, that's how, that's how this kingdom that, that we're contributing to God's kingdom that we are contributing to in the Twitch verse or just digital verse is going to continue to grow because we don't just take, but we continue to give.

Flatcap: Yeah, absolutely. And I know you're absolutely a hundred percent right that I see that in the Christian community, but I also see that in Twitch as well, whether, when you go to non-Christians as well, if you take that same approach and you invest in them, they will show up in your community. If they come into chat and you ask them what's going on and they come back and you ask them, hey, how can you give me an update on that? Whether they ask for prayer or don't, you know, like I'm sure you do as well as I do offer prayer and whether it's up to people to accept it or not say, hey, this thing I do, you know, you don't believe the same I do. You can build those relationships with people if you take the time to do it.

Flatcap: If, if, if the focus is on serving others rather than I'm here and you need to be watching me, it's, it's, I'm investing in you, you are investing in me and it's a reciprocal relationship. It moves it away from, and this is unfortunately the, the, the physical church hasn't fully figured out when they shifted to do some digital things that it still needed to be about relationship. It wasn't just about put yourself online and people will watch you take the sermon now and, and divide it up and make shorts and reels and, and push those out to, to first you get more content. No, you, you still have to build relationships. That's the key thing in all of it. If you're not building relationships in person, then people aren't going to keep coming back. If you're not building relationships online, then people aren't going to keep coming back.

Flatcap: They're, they're going to find other people to, that we're investing in them to go hang out with and those people may not be the best influence in their life, but if they're willing to spend time and invest in you, even if it's going to lead down a bad path, well, at least I got somebody that cares about me.

Romans1014XP: Absolutely. Yeah. And I, and to your point about relationship and, and that's, that's the truth, right? Whether you're talking about in person or digital, right? I, I, I joke that I spent 18 months and, and resources earning a degree to learn something that is like common sense, but not common practice. And that is, it doesn't matter whether it's digital or in, in IRL church, in person church, you're not going to have discipleship without building relationship. Like if you think that you can disciple someone without first having a relationship, then that's folly, right? And so in the digital space, there's a, dare I say, I don't want to say a sense of urgency. That's not the right word.

Romans1014XP: There's a, probably a, a, an extra hurdle to jump over because we're digital and we were not physically in, in next to each other, that being intentional about relationship matters slightly more, if that makes sense. Right. Yeah. Versus in person. But, but the, but the, the, the, the initial thought is, is still the same. You need a relationship, uh, on here and there, and there are physical churches. Like I don't want, I know sometimes when I start talking about digital, people think that we're like, like physical church bashing. Absolutely not. There are many churches, churches that I'm, that I'm still, uh, that I still partner with and, and in relationship with that they got relationship down.

Romans1014XP: They understand relationship is important to discipleship and this is not just a, a consumption practice of coming to church on Sunday and then having a small group where people get together, say, what's up, have a, have a meal and then never talk. Like they actually have that Acts 2 42, you know, dedicating themselves to the devotions of, of, of the apostles' teachings, fellowship, breaking of bread and the prayers and making that part of their living, loving, and laughing together. They got that down. Right. Um, but to your point, which was a point of like Jay Kranda's book, right? I know he's getting, he, he should pay us for plugging them so much, but like Jay Kranda's book of online church is not the answer is kind of that, that statement is kind of said tongue in cheek.

Flatcap: Yes.

Romans1014XP: Because what he's, he's not saying that online churches is, is, has no value or anything. What he's saying is if you think that just throwing your stream up on Sunday is, is, is you connecting with the digital space, then you've got this totally backwards, right? Like you need to, you need to do a lot more than just like post something, put reels about your service on, on, on Instagram, uh, or just do a live stream. You need to find ways to create real connection and community in the digital space. And then even evolve that towards creating what I will call like little ecclesias, right? Little, little gatherings of, of, of, of IRL where there's a bridge to that probably in those communities. Right. I mean, cause that's what, what we try to do.

Romans1014XP: Like we, we believe that, that physical and digital is still one church, uh, but we, we try to make sure that there is an opportunity for in-person connection, uh, in the communities where we are only digital, right? So our goal is like, we have, if we have eight, nine community groups on Long Island, New York, then they're, they're doing things, excuse me, eight, nine people that we say that are watching digitally in Long Island that, well, are they close enough that we can build a LOM Long Island or LOM Islet, wherever they are over there. And maybe start an in-person gathering that is an extension of this digital relationship. Right. And so that is, that is kind of our approach. And because from a business, you know, using business language for a second, but the cost of entry to plant what we are doing in our model, right.

Romans1014XP: The cost of entry is, is relatively de minimis compared to saying, well, we got to go invest half a million to a million dollars in a building and plant a church. Well, no, we have the quote unquote church already there. We have the resources, the apps funding and all this stuff. And now we just need someone to be willing to open up their home to establish that local ecclesia and we can support and disciple and train and coach that local representation of Life on Mission Church. Yeah.

Flatcap: To, to, to use your, your analogy there of, I can't remember what term you use, but I'm used to hearing a return on investment, the Superbowl ad a couple of years ago with, he gets us and I'm not picking on them. I just know Superbowl ads cost millions of dollars. I, I have, I don't know how many people came to Christ because of that ad. And I know it's pre-evangelism. People don't understand what they're doing is pre-evangelism. They're not evangelizing. They're trying to get people open to having a conversation about Jesus, showing that you can have a conversation about Jesus. It's okay. That's what their goal is. So, but that aside, they spent millions of dollars. I have friends in third world who spend pennies in U S dollars, uh, in order to share the gospel with people and have reached people and have those people now are followers of Christ.

Flatcap: So it's like, you know, re return on investment, going to television versus going digitally on Facebook, the rate of return of what you got to spend to actually have an impact. Yeah. You know, it's going to be different and yeah. Have to have a building, have to have a full-time pastor, have to have an organist or pianist or a praise band, or, you know, like you start putting all of the things you need in order to gather a group of a hundred to 200 people to start a church is a huge barrier that limits our capacity to reach people versus I got a microphone and a camera and I go live and I can build relationships. And we all start with less equipment than we want to have in the end. And by the way, nice microphone there. I like your microphone. I think I have the same one. I just have the black.

Romans1014XP: Yeah, you do. You get the black one.

Flatcap: You get the black one. You get the white. I was, I was tempted on the white. I just figured I was going to make it dirty and I'd have to clean it all the time. So the black, the black would look cleaner in the end.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. And I don't want to do this too often, but just, I think supersonic's question there is important just so that we can clarify what we're talking about. He says, given they both lead people to Christ, wouldn't the ROI be the same? What am I not saying? Absolutely. You know what I mean? We, when we read, when, when Jesus tells us the story of, of the parable of the 99 and the one and the lost coin, all of heaven is rejoicing over the one that repents. Absolutely. That we, that is not what we are. We're not trying to quantify the value of the difference, right? Between what the physical church, the investment of the physical church versus us.

Romans1014XP: But we're, what we're saying is what we're really focusing on is that for many of us that are called to ministry, we often create a barrier to what we are called to do by making all these things that are, that are technically nice to haves into requirements, thus slowing down potentially the impact that we can have if we find, and again, those are needed. And so therefore God's plan is to plant physical churches. That is part of his plan. Some of us are not called to do that. And, and we need to understand that let's not get caught up in trying, if God's calling us to do something different, like what my wife and I have been called to do, let's not get caught up in trying to get a million dollars for a building. If that's not what God's plan is for us, we can have impact. We can bring folks to, we can be all things to all people in order to save some in different ways. Right.

Romans1014XP: And so, and what our approach and, and the reason I say that is, um, and this is a part of our journey that I love is that life on mission church is non-denominational and we are not shy of how Romans1014XP and digital plays a role as part of our evangelism relationship building arm. And it's part of life on mission church. It's not something separate. It's part of it. And so when we were church planting, someone had mentioned to us, well, we should apply for like sponsorship. There's all these church planting organizations. And so I was like, that's not going to work really. Cause we're so different. We're so weird. Like we've spoken about that, even in EDM, that the traditional church is not really accepting of what we're trying to do.

Romans1014XP: And that may be the case in some circles, but what I am happy that I'm very happy to share anytime I have the opportunity is that one, we're digital heavy, we're gaming heavy, we're different, right? We're the weird kid in class. And we're non-denominational. And we chose that not because we're anti any denomination, but we just chose that we didn't want to put on a Jersey, so to speak. We just wanted to focus on the gospel that unites and not the things that separate. And we applied for the, to be a church plant for the Southern Baptist convention, Florida Baptist conventions arm of the SEND network, right? The North American mission board. And we were like, ain't going to happen too conservative. The, you know, the things we're doing in digital and blah, blah, blah. This is way outside of their purview.

Romans1014XP: Lo and behold, and I'm saying this because it's important, like some, you know, some older gentlemen in, as part of Florida Baptist convention and the Marion County Baptist association and folks that are pastors of bigger churches here in the Ocala area that are like, no, what you guys are doing? If that can work, like, do you know the kind of impact that we can have, especially with the number of people that even if the number of people going to church are increasing, the amount of giving has decreased. And so we just don't have the coffers, so to speak, to, to give money for a half a million dollar building or a million dollar building. We don't have that right now. So if there's another approach, we'd love to learn and see if that works. And so in almost a year of, of application process and discerning process on their part, they approved us.

Romans1014XP: Even though we're non-denominational, heavy digital and the Southern Baptist convention for the Baptist convention approved us as a church plant supported financially coaching. Like I, this Friday I have, we have a monthly coaching session with, with them where they help us as church planters. The week, the early part of the reach week, I'm going to a, a, a retreat for church planters where they're going to coach us in even deeper on how to, how to really get this up and running and working. And so they, they are supporting of the vision of God's vision, right? What he's doing here. And they've even invited us to talk about the micro church model and digital and how that can be an effective evangelism and church, church planting tool. Right. And so like, this is just God's, what God's doing here to kind of disprove some of these stereotypes. Right.

Romans1014XP: And really showing that John 17, you know, God, may they be one as you and I are one. Right. I love that. Right. And I love that, that it's like being all things to all people in order to save some, you see all these things just coming together and, and, and, uh, kind of working contrary to popular belief of the stigma of what digital says about physical and what physical says about digital. And there, and there is some movement there, maybe not as fast as some of us want, but let's be thankful for the movement that God's creating anyway. Yeah.

Flatcap: Yeah. I would say those of us who see what God is up to in the digital space are impatient with those who haven't. And I'll put myself right in there too, because I mean, I, I've been, I, I've been saying, and I'm, I'm an early adopter on a lot of things and realizing, wait a minute, maybe I'm such an early adopter in, in what God is up to right now. I'm actually a pioneer because this is still so new. And to me, it's like, wait a minute. I, I've been adapting and adopting and taking on digital aspects throughout my whole career as a pastor from, we need a website. So we got to do that Facebook. That's how I got to reach, you know, college kids. Cause I can't reach them. They won't do email. So it was like, we got shut-ins. Oh, you mean I can put my videos on YouTube and they can watch it instead of us doing a VHS tape, you know?

Flatcap: So it was like, wherever I could adapt and adopt and move into digital, I kept seeing that and kept moving, but there's still going to be a hybrid here. Not everyone is going to be digital. And even to the point of like, you and I are talking about, we're going to get to see each other in a month or somewhere around there, you know, not, not that many days from now, we're going to, we're going to get to hang out and be in person with one another. And that's going to be fun. And I can't wait to, to hang out with you. I'm going to like, there's a lot of people that go to conferences to go sit and listen to speakers. And I go to go hang out with people that I know or that I want to get to know. And that's, that's, that's what I, that's the reason I go to conferences. Amen.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. And I actually want to, you know, I say this, you know, I'm going to take the, at the risk of, of you wagging your finger at me. I'm going to say that that's one of the things that I really love about you and, and, and your ministry, your, your, your personal ministry is that yes, digital is important. And, and, and we need to incorporate that in our mission field, but you never, you've never lost sight of the importance of that physical connection with people. And it shows in how much you travel, bro. I always, I always joke with people. Like, I wonder where, I wonder where Flatcap is on his tour right now, you know, because you go to all these different conferences, you even, it's not just conferences.

Romans1014XP: Cause I remember having conversations with you where you're like, Oh, so-and-so is having an event at their church or there's a, there's an evangelism thing he's doing or whatever it is. It's like two and a half, three hours away. Yeah. It's, it's a long drive. I'm gonna go drive there today and be back, but I just want to support and be there. And, and, and, and so like you still take time because you see the importance of that, of that in-person connection and, and how important that is to certain relationships you have, you know? And so I, I just wanted to point that out there because I don't think that's something that people either aid know, know enough about you or appreciate enough about, about your, your ministry that you push digital without, without undermining the importance of, of physical connection.

Flatcap: Well, they, they, they both do different things, but in both aspects, I'm building relationships. The one analogy I like to get, you know, bring up to people who struggle with, can you build relationships online is if you're, if you live in Florida and your grandkids live in Pennsylvania, are you going to zoom call them or not? Yeah. Okay. Are you going to look forward to seeing them at Christmas or birthdays? Yeah. Like that's all you're trying to do with every relationship you have then is take advantage of what, what ways you can get together with people. And then when you can get together physically, you're going to say yes to it. You're, you're going to be inconvenienced at the time, but you do that with family all the time. You do that with friends all the time that you've known for years.

Flatcap: So why wouldn't you start building relationships that way too of, yeah, you know, the one, the one I love telling, talking about is, uh, uh, I guess I'll go ahead and drop her name. Alice in the palace, uh, who is, is, uh, from the UK was in Ohio and said, Hey, I want to go to the museum here. If you and pastor Brock VR, who's used to be across town from me want to come and meet up, I'd love to meet you. Okay. That sounds great. So I drove five hours to go to a museum for three hours so I could drive back home for five hours. So as I was leaving the next day. Yeah. And you know, I'll, I'll, I'll, it's like, that's one of my favorite because the relationship was so strong and I wanted to meet her in person that that was not inconvenient. It wasn't what I wanted to do, but it wasn't inconvenient because I did it. If it was inconvenient, I wouldn't have done it.

Flatcap: Uh, so somebody else that would have been inconvenient and they wouldn't have done it. But I also like to post that. I, like I'm always surprised by this too. Like I'll just post, Hey, I'm here. If anybody's around and wants to check out and hang out. And I had, man, I'm blanking on the name. I was in a Colorado or not Colorado Springs, but a nearby garden of the gods there for NCMS. And I posted that and, uh, man, why can I not think of his name? Anyway, he just replied back and said, where are you at? And I, and I said, well, we're at, you know, Glen Erie Castle. He goes, I literally just drove past it. What are you, what are you doing for dinner? Uh, I'll, I'll love, I'll message you back. I'm finding out. Okay. We're going to go here. And he shows up ahead of us to get us seats at the table so he could come and hang out.

Flatcap: I mean, that's, that's what digital relationships do is when an opportunity unexpected comes up, you just jump at it to, to be able to meet up with somebody and hang out.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like just recently we didn't get to hang out cause I wasn't available, but I think you, I believe you were down for exponential.

Flatcap: Yeah.

Romans1014XP: Right. You was in Orlando and you like hit me up. Like, Hey, I'm, I'm in Orlando if you want to chill. And I was like, ah, I can't these days. But the fact that our digital relationship led to the opportunity to have that. Oh yeah. Right. And, and that's the way, yeah. And we need to, we need to view again, in person and digital are not contrarians of one another.

Flatcap: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It is. We are not saying digital is the only answer for everybody. And we're not saying physical is the answer for everybody. We are saying where we can build relationships. We want to invest in relationships. And what I really, I keep trying to talk to the physical church, not telling them they need to go do digital evangelism and digital online missions. I'm just trying to tell them they need to realize that if they only see somebody on Sunday for an hour and they don't come before the service and they don't leave after, you know, hang around for coffee afterwards. You don't actually have a relationship and you, and even if they do hang out for coffee afterwards, how many touch points do you have with that person during the week? Like you need to have three to five touch points throughout the week. I don't mean one individual.

Flatcap: I mean, throughout the body to build relationships with the body. If you're, if you don't have three to five touch points with everybody that's showing up on Sunday, you don't have a relationship with them. It's the, at least if you do, it's really shallow. And if you want something deeper, you need to, you need to have more times that you are touching base with each other. Yeah. Be the, be the light Romans. I feel as someone with social anxiety, it helps when you chat with someone in a regular digitally, it brings the person's anxiety down because it's like you already know them, which is cool. Personally speaking. Yeah. That's a great point too, is the physical church sometimes is a barrier and there's various different ways where it's a barrier.

Flatcap: Social anxiety, physical limitations, family obligations, getting together in person can have limitations on it where digital can bridge a gap that, that physical getting together is going to struggle for people to be able to be there all the time.

Romans1014XP: All right. Yeah. Bridge a gap. And also as with the example that she gave is, is bridge the gap, but also provide an avenue for dealing with the things, right. That might be a barrier. Right. So I'm a big believer in, in, for those of us that, let me see, I have to think of my words so that they. So we can get a good clip here. Yeah. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. A good clip. So that we get a good clip for the right reasons. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I am a firm believer that a lot of times when we are anti-digital or anti-physical, there's usually some sort of, of experience or I'll go as far as saying, even a trauma that, that heavily informs our approach against or for that, that platform. And, and so that's just, that's just as a, as a believer participating in a space.

Romans1014XP: And that's something that give it like, be the lights example says that yes, as a, as a believer, as a participant in these platforms. I love how, you know, I'm paraphrasing how the digital has allowed her to really allow the Holy spirit to work on that part of her, to allow herself to have the physical relationship that she wants to have as a believer with someone. Right. And so I love that. And I will go as far as to say, and this is where I want to be careful that as leaders in the church, ministers, I'll even throw influencers in there, even though I don't like that. But as influencers, as pastors, what have you, we need to understand that we may also have experiences or traumas that inform our position on either physical or digital. And we need to be careful not to allow those to affect how we shepherd other people. Because if we shepherd other people into that same mindset, right?

Romans1014XP: Then we are allowing our trauma to inform our, how we do church and how we teach others church should be done. Right. And so I just think we need to be mindful of that. We're all broken. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that as a pastor, that I don't have my things I'm working on. Trust me, God's still working, working overtime with me. However, because we are called to a higher standard, right? When we read for second Timothy Titus, we're called to a higher standard. We need to be mindful that we may bring those things to our ministry and we need to make sure that we have people around us. We are in the word, allowing the Holy Spirit to work on us in those things so that we're not negatively influencing someone's ability to engage in the church. We're not, we're not putting an unnecessary stumbling block between someone and their relationship with Christ.

Romans1014XP: Because I know on both sides of the V, I know people in physical church who are like casting stones on those through digital. And I know people in digital who cast stones on physical. And we need to be mindful of that because the physical connection is important. And the digital is an amazing opportunity that needs to be ministered to. And we need to have missionaries there. Both are important. And we need to stop villainizing the other. And if you have some sort of trauma that has led you, and I see this more on the digital side, just because I'm always in digital. So this is not, I'm sure this applies to those in physical church too. But I know a lot of folks who are leaders in the digital space that are very anti-physical. And when I get to know them, it's because they have some sort of experience. They've had some sort of experience or trauma that informs how they do church.

Romans1014XP: And they allow that to inform how they teach others about how to do church. I'm not going to give you my name. I'm not going to be vulnerable with you. I'm not going to give you any connection to who I am as a person because of something that happened in my past. I understand that and lead that to God. But I will submit to you that that's not, that God is big enough to handle that too. And that we need to allow God to work on that so that we can bring to fruition what he really wants us to do in ministry. The bigger thing that he probably has, and we're not maybe allowing him to enter that space of where we're holding in that trauma of anti-person, anti-touch, anti-IRL because of that past experience.

Romans1014XP: You know, so I would, so I would just, I would just dare to say that if that's a reason why you're anti-physical church, then maybe there's some, something that we need to do with the Holy Spirit to work on that part. Because we can be doing a disservice to, uh, to those that we are shepherding and to the mission that we're called for.

Flatcap: Yeah. And you're, you're talking about, you know, if there's trauma that's there, that the trauma could lead us to have fear about things, fear that it'll happen again, fear, fear that you're not going to be understood, fear, fear of what might happen. But on the side of it, you've never experienced it. You can also be fear in a suspicious way of, I don't believe this could actually be used by God. This really couldn't be, this is going to lead me down the path of away from my faith and it's going to lead. And it's just the, I don't want to say it's a satanic panic, but it's, it's an uninformed decision that rather than explore and understand and get to know someone who's experiencing something different, you just, you know, condemn from a place of fear.

Flatcap: And, you know, fear is never a good way to operate out of anything unless there's a tiger behind you, then it's appropriate, then it's appropriate.

Romans1014XP: That's where you learn that anxiety is not a sin, but it will save your life. Right. Yeah. But to your point, exactly, I guess to put it in a nutshell, we need to be mindful of some of those fears, some of those traumas or whatever it is that's informing our choices, especially as leaders, because that can affect how others then see how their relationship with church becomes.

Flatcap: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, if, if I look, you know, if I, if I had a crystal ball and could, could look into it and say, what is the church going to be in, in 20 years? My thought is the majority of church is going to be hybrid. You know, there will be those physical only churches. I mean, we have Amish only churches, you know, so we're going to have physical only churches and there's going to be, you know, people that are pioneering in, in platforms that don't exist today. I'm going to, I'm just going to say hologram church. Cause you know, I, I, I, you know, if we got AI, we're going to figure out how to do holograms, you know? And so we're going to have hologram church out there and, and you all show up and who knows what it is. It's AR, VR adjacent. I don't know.

Flatcap: Like there are going to be people pioneering and stuff and reaching people that have never walked through a physical church. You know, we already have VR churches. So yeah, I, it's like, why would, why would we not have all of these? I mean, why, why take anything off the table and say, it's not permissible to, to me, I don't want to limit the Holy spirit. And I don't want to get in the way of someone coming to Christ and say, this is the way you have to do it. I want to help people where they are. And if you're called to something, then let's, let's get you the, the mentor, the discipler to the coach to come alongside you and help what God's calling you do and unleash you for the kingdom. Because frankly, the harvest is plentiful and the workers are few. So let's keep praying for the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into the harvest. Absolutely. Well, let's, let's redirect.

Flatcap: Let's talk about your experience as a Twitch streamer. What have been two or three, just fantastic experiences that you've been able to have either yourself as a streamer or someone in your community, you know, whether it's in discord or it's in chat or, or whatever it might be.

Romans1014XP: Uh, well, two that come to mind immediately, and we alluded to it earlier is partnering with blessing boat for me was an awesome opportunity, not only to help me like get to affiliate and make more relationships. But also volunteering with blessing boat, uh, for, for, for a long while and working with warrior to kind of, uh, like build on that and, and bringing more people on.

Flatcap: Cause again, go ahead and talk more details on it. Cause not everybody necessarily knows. I mean, warrior's been on here. I've been on blessing boat, but not everybody listened to the podcast may have listened to those episodes. So share a little more about what blessing boat is and what you did with them.

Romans1014XP: Sure. So blessing boat is, is, uh, you can find that there it's a ministry with its own channel here on Twitch at blessing boat. And they're, they're, they're like all of us. Their main function is, is, is evangelism and, and getting the word out more on the Twitch verse by assisting Christian streamers, especially those of us that are just starting out in, in having a platform to, to, uh, introduce them to the community. And also help these new streamers hit those targets that Twitch requires of us in order to earn affiliate status. I'll say the biggest thing is, is it helps you build those relationships that are going to help you hit those marks and then sustain it. And one of the things that, that I was able to do was join blessing boat, uh, thanks to a connection that you gave me to warrior of light, who was the founder of blessing boat.

Romans1014XP: And through that, that was a huge contributing factor to my earning affiliate status in the time that I did. And then once that happened, I was like, wow, that was so influential. And so it was so significant in what I did. How can I give back? How can I, how can I make sure that others know of this? And so partnering with, with blessing boat and assisting warrior. And, you know, I hosted for, for, you know, many times I hosted the, the blessing boat, help him kind of, kind of envision of what that is, but whatever it is that you can do, I, I would, I would, I would, I would suggest that if not only participate in blessing boat or for all the blessing boat alums out there. I, I would just encourage you to, to think about coming back and, and helping out whatever that looks like for you.

Romans1014XP: Everyone, everyone's busy, has a lot of things on their plate, but help out in, in helping the next up and comer, right. Um, put a hand back and, and help up the next Christian streamer because I, you know, every community that's doing something for the kingdom deserves to be, to be supported any way we can. Uh, and that's what warrior continues to do is, is blessing boat is this Saturday, starting at noon central, goes for about eight hours. I'm actually participating this week. Uh, it's going to be hosted by David's daily show, another excellent Christian streamer. And he's going to have a bunch of conversation and a bunch of folks within the Twitch Christian, Twitch verse, if you will, that are going to be on with the gaming or having conversations.

Romans1014XP: Uh, but yeah, blessing boat does this every month to introduce streamers to the, to the, uh, Christian streaming community or the Christian Twitch community, I should say. And so that was a very, very huge, very influential in my, my short Twitch career. It really helped us, it's good, it greased the skid, so to speak, to help us kind of like get established and make, make friends, build community. So that was number one.

Flatcap: Yeah.

Romans1014XP: That was a, that was, and that was a huge one.

Flatcap: Yeah. And, um, I, I love that when blessing boat is on, I can go check out who's new because I may not have run into these people and they may be somebody that I absolutely will connect with. I'll resonate with and, and, and want to spend time with because there, there are people who are doing similar things or looking to do that. What I, what, you know, cause what I, what I do on my other channel is mostly read the Bible and I'm in a, I'm in a niche niche area where there's not that many. And I also have started looking into the, uh, you know, checking the category and seeing who's around in there and getting to, to meet people that way, you know, is another way to do it. But that's one of the, the, the wonderful things of blessing boat is these new up and comers that you can invest in, or you're going to want to hang out with and check out, uh, and, and learn more about them.

Flatcap: It's just been a fantastic thing. So warrior love, love that you're doing. Unfortunately for me, I wish you went the other way and went earlier instead of backing it up and starting at noon. Cause it's like, I'm sorry, by, by noon, I am out and about on Saturday. I'm doing something and I'm, I'm not able to hang out. And I, boy, since that change happened earlier this year, I haven't really been able to watch much of blessing boat. Cause I was usually, I'd, I'd watch the beginning. I'd be able to hang out until about noon central. And then I'd be like, I'm off doing something. I got plans. So, but it's still nice to go check out who's there, even if I can't stay and watch it.

Romans1014XP: And there's always a VOD, right? You can always watch the VOD and see who's on. But yeah, you know, we're always, I say we, as a warrior is always looking at different ways, always trying to be as impactful as possible in his ministry. So yeah, right now he's doing the 12 to eight that could look different later. Who knows? As the way I know warrior, he's going to be obedient to what God wants him to do. And he's going to cast that net wherever it's, wherever it's catching the most fish. Right. So, um, I trust that we trust God's going to lead that ministry wherever he wants.

Flatcap: Oh, absolutely. And if what the ministry is supposed to do is reach more people, then it doesn't need to be the time that's convenient for me, you know? Right. Of course.

Romans1014XP: And I know it's not what you meant. We all know. I know. I know.

Flatcap: But I, I just thought, well, you know, let me clarify that because there, there has been several of those where I, I really wish I had the free time when people were on streaming. And it's like, I don't like you're streaming right when it's inconvenient for me and I'm busy doing other stuff, but it does not mean I don't support you. I don't pray over you. I'm not trying to find out what God is up to in your life. So those relationships will be ongoing.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Yeah. And I'll say the other, this is a kind of, kind of bookended almost. The other thing that kind of happened in our Twitch ministry is for most of it, I was trying to be the best streamer I could be and also build a discord community. And I was realizing that like building a discord community for what I envisioned as a place where discipleship and fellowship happens off stream. Right. It was, it was a job in and of itself. Right. And, and, and we just weren't getting the traction that I felt was necessary for what the vision of our online digital, our digital ministry was. So then lo and behold, I'm on Facebook and I come across, this was like a few months ago, a couple of months ago, Matt's in here. You probably know those memories better than I do, but like a couple of months ago, come across Faith Forge Gaming and Faith Forge Gaming.

Romans1014XP: For those of you that don't know, it's an amazing Christian discord community where fellowship and discipleship is, is, is the, is center mass of what, of what it's about. Right. So I saw what Matt has built and is building, what God's been doing through, through Matt's generosity and his obedience with Faith Forge Gaming. And I was like, man, this is exactly what I envisioned for what we, what we called the XP universe. Right. What we were trying to build. And I was like, man, you know, and I told my wife about it, Warren and I spoke about it and I was like, this is so awesome. And I was like, I was like praying on it and I was like, why am I trying to build a pizza shop across the street from where they got some of the best pizza ever? Right. I'd rather just bring what I have to what they're doing and help that ministry. Right.

Romans1014XP: Instead of trying to, you know, instead of trying to like wear myself too thin, if that makes sense. And then the rest of my ministry suffers because I'm trying to do too many things. Right. And I think, I think to kind of take a step back macro, I think as, as those of us in ministry, we understand that sometimes we say yes to too many things because it's good. But just because it's good and just because it serves the kingdom doesn't mean that God called you to do it. Yep. Right. And so I think some of us have that, that, that problem of saying yes, and we don't build the healthy boundaries that allow us to be effective at what God's already called us to steward. And so through prayer and conversations with, with, with Matt over at Faith Forge gaming.

Romans1014XP: So warrior warrior had the great idea of inviting Faith Forge gaming to do what we called, it was our first community takeover, if you want to call it that. So Faith Forge gaming kind of came in and, and, and put their, their, their DNA and stamp, right. And on, on our blessing boat event. And it was awesome. One of our, I would argue from when I've been involved, it was one of our most fun and impactful Saturdays. And I was like, I love this ministry is coming together, right. Without competing and whatever, this is dope. I love this. And so when that happened, it really clicked for me. I was like, I don't need the XP hub. I don't need the XP universe. Um, focus on where God has me. Let me steward what he has me doing. And let me just, let me just bring my talents, whatever they are, my gifts, whatever they are to what Matt's doing. And, and that has been a blessing in many ways.

Romans1014XP: One is, is the relationships that I've built through that community and what we've been able to do. We, you know, I, my, I play seven days to die, a particular game a lot because my wife loves that game. And it just so happens that there was a community in Faith Forge gaming that loved it too. But there wasn't anyone that kind of like took the lead on that. And I was like, you know what, I'll do it. And so we have a, like a, now we have a dedicated server. Thanks to the generosity of Forged by Grace, who set up a dedicated service, seven days to die. And now we're doing all these community events. We're doing all these things. And so now I'm able to participate in events and ministry and discipleship that was part of the vision that God gave me.

Romans1014XP: But I just realized that I had to let go of making it about me or owning it in order to be a part of what God's plan was on that part of my journey. And I'm just really thankful for the partnership that I have with Faith Forge gaming and what they're doing and being part of their content creator team. Because it's allowed me not only to do, to be a part of what they're doing, the fruit that God's bearing through that ministry, but also it's allowed me to be better at the things that God did tell me to take the reins on, right? The things that he wants me to steward. I'm better at that because I don't have to do all these extra things because Matt has a heart for it. God's called him to do something there. And I could just bring myself to what he's doing.

Flatcap: Oh, man, I love stories of collaboration. There is just something about, I love your analogy too. Like, I'm going to build a pizza place across from the busiest pizza place in town. What am I thinking? Like, why am I doing this? Unless what I'm going to be open is as soon as they close, I'm going to open up. Right, right. And when they open, I'm going to close. I'm going to be open the opposite hours when nobody's up actually looking for pizza. But I'll get all those people that are, you know. Right. But no, it's like, yeah, why do we so often? And I've heard this, and I'm not picking on church planters either because sometimes you're looking at denomination, you're looking at other things and those kinds of things. Or you can do all the statistics and look and say, in a town this size, and I've done this where I've lived before. I'm trying to think if I remember the numbers here.

Flatcap: I don't remember here exactly. But you'll do an analysis of how many people live in town, how many churches are in town. If you divide it up, you're like, well, given the number of people in the town I live in, there should be 500 people in our church. We have 100 people in our church, and the church next door has 100 people in them. And I know the pastor to the other church. So where are all these people? Not in the church. You know what the chances are of people showing up to an existing church that don't go to church at all? Not good. Not good. Start something brand new that they can walk in and be invited into. You just increased it a lot to give them an opportunity to come and find something and to find Christ. And, you know, from that standpoint, I totally understand the go church plant. And church planting is one of the most effective ways of reaching nonbelievers with the gospel.

Flatcap: But wouldn't it be better to partner with the church that's already in town and figure out if you can use their space instead of, you know, raising all the funding to go across? Yeah, you know, so it's like there's all kinds of ways to do this in collaboration with others who are already doing the thing. So Blessing Boat is one of those ways. Joining up with Faith Forge Gaming, that's fantastic. I love that now you can go play a game that you're interested in and your wife is interested in and you can be immersing yourself in that community and reaching people. Whereas if you'd started the other way around of, let me go play that game and try to attract people to it, they wouldn't know you exist necessarily. Right.

Romans1014XP: Yeah, absolutely. And that's, I mean, that's our approach. That's what God's put on our heart, not only the digital space, but like you mentioned, like collaborating with other churches. That's really because our church model is like, we're not, we're not a micro church per se. We are a network of micro churches, which is connected to the larger church of Life on Mission Church. And so we are reaching people that maybe our, our community churches here aren't right. And so it allows for the partnership. Like we actually started our Sunday services, our in-person Sunday services about six weeks ago. We just had, we just had our third service this past Sunday. We do it first and third Sunday of the month. And the, the church, they allow us to use a space for free in their church, right? Where they do their youth ministry. So we have, we can have up to like 50 people in there free of charge.

Romans1014XP: And that allows us to reach folks that maybe they aren't because of our model. And on top of that, I know that they have an interest in, in, in somehow bringing gaming and digital to what they're doing. And so I'm like, Hey, that's where I, that's what I do. That's where I live. And so like, how can I bring that to what you guys are doing? Right. There's another church in town that they have, they have a, an awesome missions pastor that does all these trips every year. And I was like, well, why should we try to like raise money and do all these things for us to do something? When, how about we bring ourselves, our people and our resources to help them get resources for a mission trip. So now that church and life on mission church together can go to this country to, you know?

Romans1014XP: And so again, that's kind of what we're trying to do is not, you know, a lot of physical churches, there's still a lot of like, it's almost like gangs, right? Like what colors you wreck? And that's not, you know, you from there? Nah, that's, this is, this is, this is this church, you know? And so like, we're, we're starting to see some of that, that wall, that barrier come down a bit where churches are more willing to collaborate and realize that this is not about sheep stealing. This is one church, one kingdom. And we're just all called to steward whatever the role is that God gave us to. And so, and so we're really big on that, like connecting with different churches, bringing our strengths to where they might have challenges and vice versa so that we could be better ambassadors for Christ.

Flatcap: Yeah, yeah, I guess I, I think it, Patrick from New Thing, now he's, he's with Exponential, Patrick O'Connor talks about kingdom over castle, you know, and friends on mission. And, and we've adopted those same phrases all around, like I say those all the time, you know, it's, it's kingdom over castle. Like if I come to your church and help you with an event and you end up with 10 different people that come to Christ and get on fire and are working in your church, why should I care? Because the, you know, that's more than one, you know, sheep that just came in. I mean, there's rejoicing. We should all be happy about that. Does it support my livelihood? That's not relevant. You know, did it, did it, did it, you know, we end up with giving in our church and that doesn't matter.

Flatcap: Those, those shouldn't be the things that we measure success by, or our faithfulness is, is a different way of thinking about it, which I think digital really lends itself to rather than measuring the metrics of, you know, I don't even know how many people we have watching the podcast right now. Or once it goes, you know, on all the other social media platforms, how many likes and shares do we get? Like that's, that's not the thing that we measure. It's, am I faithful to the thing God's called me to do, which is get friends like you on my podcast so I can highlight what God has been up to. I can celebrate what God has been up to. We can rejoice together in that. And then we can encourage other people to go do likewise. That's the thing, like if, if, if it's one person that watches this podcast and that that's who it reaches, that's what I'm supposed to do. And, and that's why we're here.

Flatcap: And I'm so glad that we didn't have problems. Like last week you had no internet and now we're rescheduled. And, you know, you were saying that, uh, 10, seven was, uh, your, your, your go live date. So we're, we are, you know, 364 days, 365 days in here, baby.

Romans1014XP: Right. Yeah. It's kind of like, yeah, I mean, obviously I realized it, but it didn't occur to me that, yeah, we're having this conversation and like, it goes without saying, but like, man, all glory to God. Right. Like, again, I'm not a big streamer, but I, I love to see what God's done in this past year. The relationships that were built, the impact that we've been able to have in his name, in all the different circles where we may have even the smallest bit of influence. You know, I, I'm just really, really, really thankful for that. I'm thankful for him and I'm thankful for him connecting you and me, warrior and me and connecting Matt and, you know, Faith Forge gaming and me reach conference, which we didn't even get to. Like I went from being a, what is this, you know, at that reach last year.

Flatcap: Yeah. Go ahead. Talk about that. That's that's a connection point.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. So like I, last year I went to reach, you know, when you spoke about everything, I was like, yeah, you know what? Why not go is right there. Convince my wife to go. That took a lot of convincing, but you know, we go and, and she was on board with the digital stuff. Let me say that as, as, cause she's a supportive wife, but when she went there and she saw the impact that the reach creator community has, she was like, oh no, this is definitely not just something that you should do. This is something that we should do as life on mission church. Right. And make sure that we're connected with, with reach and reach conference for those that aren't aware.

Romans1014XP: The way I explain it, because again, I was a former lawyer, as a lawyer, I was part of what's called the bar association and the bar association would support you and help you with like, with a kind of like CLEs and trainings and how to be better at your craft. Right. And it was an opportunity to connect with other lawyers within that, like the New York state bar association or whatever, the American bar association. Reach conference is very, and they had conferences right throughout the year. We can get together. Reach conference to me is like the quote unquote trade organization. For, for Christian content creators and streamers where we have an opportunity every week, every Tuesday. Right.

Romans1014XP: We have our, our, our lunch and learn where we, where we hear from a speaker and we learn about different tips and advice and, and how to make, how to, how to become better streamers, make our content better. And then we also have opportunities to meet IRL, right. Not only with it, the Superbowl of that being reach conference and November, November 5th to 7th in Orlando. And so last year I was just a spectator. I was just there. You were the only person that I, that I personally knew and, and then warrior because of, you know, blessing boat. And so I was just there like a kid in the candy score, just observing, taking everything in and just being like, wow, this is, this is so cool. It's so amazing. And it has, it's very Comic-Con adjacent, right? With, but more, it has a Comic-Con elements to it. Go to reachconf.org and you see all the deets.

Romans1014XP: I'm not going to get into it now, but go there, take, check it out. They're amazing. The events are amazing. And so anyways, I was just taking stuff in and learning from people, building relationships again, because that's what I love to do. And then just maintaining those relationships throughout this past year. All of a sudden there was an opportunity. There was a, I'm my, I'm also, I'm a wrestling fan. WWE in particular. And my, my brother is, is works with the leadership team. An organization called Mania Club Champions of Hope. And they, they raise money and awareness for fighting against pediatric cancer. Those of you that are wrestling fans, if you remember Connor's Cure, right? The, the young boy who unfortunately succumbed to pediatric cancer. That was one of the first initiatives that Mania Club kind of took over.

Romans1014XP: Mania Club just started as a group of, a group of fans that want to get some money together at a, at a tailgate event to, to raise money for pediatric cancer. And when they saw this thing work, they were like, well, what if we started at 501c3? They did that. Lo and behold, you know, they have like thousands of followers throughout all social media and events throughout the year. And the connections with, with different wrestling promotions and wrestlers and, and big wigs, whatever. They're, they're awesome organization as a fan of wrestling and awesome organization in what they do. And they're calling to, in the fight against pediatric cancer. So I, so I was tangentially involved with them and got more involved with them in the past few months. And I saw a connection there because there's a, there's a fandom overlap. If you look, this was a Venn diagram.

Romans1014XP: There's a bit of an overlap with the gaming fan and the wrestling fan, right? They, they, they kind of have a lot of things in common. So I reached out to, to Romans 10 to be nine founder of reach con conference. And I say, Hey, will you guys be interested in this by any chance? And his, his ears perked up. He just so happens. I was at a mania club event here in Tampa at a, at a pay-per-view. He happened to be at the same event with his son. Right. And he was like, he's like, dude, I was there last weekend. Like it just, it just clicked. Right. And then we, we got all the parties together. And, uh, and so now we have, it's, it's, it's already been spoken about. So I can talk about it, but we have reach mania.

Romans1014XP: The reach, the reach mania Royal rumble happening at reach conference, where there's going to be, you know, for people that donate and stuff, there's going to be opportunities to win some amazing prizes that I can't, that I can't disclose yet, but let me tell you, if you're a wrestling fan and you participate in this, and if you win this, you're going to be ecstatic. That's all I can say about that. And then we also have, uh, in true wrestling or WWE fashion, they do something called a kickoff show. And we said, that'd be cool to do for reach. And so we decided that on, on October 16th, which is next week from three to five on Friday, we're having the first reach conference kickoff show where, where we're going to be talking about what to expect at reach conference for the first hour.

Romans1014XP: Then during the second hour, we're going to have 20 reach creators, their avatars, participate in a mini Royal rumble. And, uh, Aki, Aki and fam and I are going to be hosting. And there are a few other, uh, reach conference careers that are going to be either hosting it with us or co-streaming it to get the hype up for reach, to give a reach experience to some folks that can't come to reach conference. And then, uh, there's going to be some swag. We call this the swag in the bag of battle Royales happening next Friday is again, sponsored by mania club and reach conference. Um, and, and they're going to be able to win either a copy of 2k 26, if they don't already have it or a steam card, if they do, and some other fun swag stuff in the bag from mania club, uh, all going to a great cause.

Romans1014XP: But the point of all that being that I went from just like checking it out, kicking the tires and when is this reach thing to now having relationships with, with folks at reach and participating in, in earnest, uh, not only at the kickoff show next weekend or next Friday, but at reach conference, I'll be co-hosting the Royal rumble on that Saturday evening. So it's just awesome. Like what God's doing and the things he's connecting and the opportunities that I've been able to have and will have because of, of, uh, of this community.

Flatcap: Yeah, that, that is fantastic. I did not know all of those, those things coming up. Now, my problem is all of, all of my wrestling references are from last century. So, so I, I don't, I don't have much knowledge of who's, who's been in, uh, wrestling the last 10, 15 years, but who, who is, who is your wrestler that you root for?

Romans1014XP: Uh, man, I'm not going to sound basic when I say this, but I'm a, I still, I love Roman Reigns. He's kind of the gold right now to me, uh, like what he's doing kind of transcends what like what champions do. He, he is the storyline, any storyline that's connected to him becomes the storyline du jour that must be followed. He's able to do more in a part-time schedule that most wrestlers can do full-time. He's earned that, uh, with the work that he's put in over the last decade. So yeah, he's my guy ride or die with, with, uh, with the tribal chief and I will acknowledge him. Uh, so yes, yes. Uh, but yes, definitely if you're a wrestling fan, we, we are going to, we're looking, we're trying to find ways to introduce wrestling into our Twitch streams somehow, you know?

Romans1014XP: And, and so we're, we're kind of working on that behind the scenes with some folks because not to sound too like Twitch techie or Twitch business, but we have a formula right now that's working and we're like, eh, do we want to throw something in there, throw a wrench that will throw it off. So like, we want to make sure that we find a way that respects our current audience, respects our community while still introducing something that might give us an opportunity to reach more people.

Flatcap: Yeah. Yeah. That's always one of those things of, and I, I, I love the, uh, the idea of experimenting, go and try something, set, set a timeframe around it, uh, commit to it and then learn from it. It doesn't mean that you're going to continue to do it. You're going to learn something. So you're going to learn something good that maybe you'll apply somewhere else. You're going to learn something good and you're going to keep doing it, or you're going to learn something bad and not do it anymore, but you still learn something because you're still going to grow from it. And I think Twitch streamers understand that, but I, I keep trying to tell churches they need to do the same thing as well. Like go and try something new that you haven't done before. Learn about it, explore it in a different way. The, the, uh, you know, you're being non-denominational.

Flatcap: I don't know if you, you celebrate Advent or Lent at all, but you would at least be aware of, of those, those times of year, I would think. But, you know, I've often gone into churches in my denomination. You're only required to do communion quarterly. And I'm like thinking like every three months, this is like not enough time and space. So I usually can get them to go up to every month, you know, and then maybe throw a few extra ones in there. I can, I can usually get them to there, but to get them to go every week. It's just an out of their, like they cannot fathom the idea of it. So I love, I love to do this. Say we're going to do it for Lent. That's just seven weeks in a row. We're not committing to do this afterwards. I just want to see what it feels like for us. If we do this every week for Lent, we're committed to the journey towards Easter of what Christ did for us.

Flatcap: What would it be like if we do all this? And as long as I frame it, we're going to learn from this. We're going to, we're going to experience it. We're going to, we're going to gain something from it, but we're not committed to this. I can usually get them to say, okay, pass their reservations. And I even, even had one, I can remember the conversation I had. He, he was like, like, well, it won't just lose its specialness at all. Like I just, he had like all the arguments of why you can't do communion every week. And I go, well, I'm not asking to do it every week. I'm asking to do it for seven weeks. And he came, he came to me at the end of his like, that's the most amazing Lent I've ever gone through. I was totally wrong about doing it every week. He wasn't ready to go keep doing it every week, but I wasn't either. I wasn't pushing for that.

Flatcap: I was just like, I want us to experience this in a new way. And here's how we can go and do that. And, and we, we, so that whole level of let's open the door up, let's go try it. Let's see that, you know, I think that's a good way to approach it. You don't want to throw off what you're already doing. So what can you learn from it that, Hey, maybe you introduce some people and realize, you know what? We need to hand this off to some other ministry to do, and we're going to hand our people off that want this too. I don't know what's going to happen with it, but that's certainly better than blowing up everything. If that's not going to be a thing that your community does, you know, I don't know if it's

Romans1014XP: of, cause I've been a business owner for most of my career and being a church planter has some of that entrepreneurial kind of mindset to it. Yeah. Right. And so I'm not afraid to fail and I'm not afraid to fail fast and pivot if I have to. Yeah.

Romans1014XP: Like, and I think that's a mindset you need to have. I will say, you know, like you said, as a streamer, like this is, look at us as if this is like your business, this is your thing. You try something. If it, if it ever really like fails, whatever, then pivot. And then like what, what I do with my kids, they get annoyed by it, but I, I kind of do a start, stop, continue. Oh yeah. Analysis afterwards. Right. Like, like what should you, what should you start doing that you weren't doing? What should you stop doing that you were? And what should you continue that work? Right.

Flatcap: Like, you know, like, like, uh, yeah, I would, I just didn't use that language. Yeah, exactly.

Romans1014XP: Yeah.

Flatcap: Yeah.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. So I, like, I just try it. If it doesn't work, start, stop, continue afterwards. I do a little triage afterwards and make adjustments and make adjustments, you know?

Flatcap: Yeah. That's, that's one of the, uh. The fun things I think about doing things instead of, well, you know, I, being a pastor, one of the things I've, I've never been as a manager, I, I do not know how to come in and let's just hold status quo and, and let's just try to keep the number of people we have. And let's just try to do the same thing we did last year or 10 years ago. Like, I don't, I don't know how to do that. Now I'm not the entrepreneur that wants to start something from zero. I am a person that says, can we make this better? What can we do better? Like I constantly like, so, you know, I, I did a lot of coaching, but I didn't introduce the basics to you. I mean, I will reinforce the basics. I will take you back to the basics, but I'm not the one teaching you the basics.

Flatcap: And then I, I will take you from the level of not just knowing what to do, but understanding why it works and why you want to do it. So I love to, you know, start with the foundation laid, and then I'm going to build, you know, the, you know, the, we're going to, we're going to kick out the garage and we're going to, you know, we're going to build a whole, you know, man cave out there kind of, so to speak. We're, we're going to, you know, actually I should talk about this so that this window was not here when I moved into this house, this, this, this wall back here, this was just an empty, empty basement space. And, uh, we were here two years and I'm like, we're kicking out the windows or actually we're going to put windows in. This was all dirt on the other side. I had to take, dig down the mound on the other side.

Flatcap: So like, I love to improve on stuff that's already built so much so that this drives my wife nuts. Like we were not in this house, uh, even 24 hours. And I already put a hole in the wall of why I was going to fix something. And, and literally when we walked through the house, we both said, wow, this house is great. We don't have to do anything to it. We didn't have to. You gotta, you're like, but, but I do anyway, it's, it's a constant, like I can make this more than what it, which is really bad when you're a streamer, because I see all the things that I'm not doing that other people are doing that like makes me want to upgrade stuff constantly.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, and I'm a little bit different. I enjoy the starting from scratch and building something and then handing it off. Like I, maybe that's why I like, maybe that's why the idea of church planting was so appealing to me and the model that we have where if you feel called to plant a local Ecclesia in your town, then we will help you establish it, coach you, disciple you, continue to, to, to be a coach and a disciple, you know, and disciple you and give you resources. And then once it's kind of budding, step out and then do it somewhere else. Right. So I, you know, it definitely, I enjoy that part. And also it even, it even informs funny, even the games I like to play, you know, I love playing games where it's like, like sports. If I play sports games, I'm like, give me the worst team.

Romans1014XP: I want to build something from scratch or I want to create a team or I want to create my character, build it up. And then once it's like where it needs to be, I'm like, I got to do something else now. Like I, for whatever reason, I like to give me the zero and let's build something. But to your point, there's some people that say, no, no, no, no. I want someone like you need someone to hand that baton to. Right. So you need, you need both. So I love, I love the idea of, of, you know, it's the whole like spiritual gifts thing and, and, and different gifts. It's like, I, I rather, I like starting from zero, you know, and then see what happens.

Flatcap: Yeah. And I, and I like it's broken and, and you need, you need the shepherd to come in and care for you, but then also the visionary to take you where you, where you really can go. And, and that's, that's what I, why I love, I don't want to say, I love going into broken churches, but I help, I love helping people heal. And I love people being able to see that they can be more than they thought they could be. Those are, those are the two, for me, most amazing things. And it's all Christ. It's not me, you know, to, to bring that and help that. So I told you I am interviewing at churches right now because I'm, I'm feeling like, you know, I'm talking hybrid. I need to go back to the physical church so that I can really help a physical church live into hybrid discipleship and online ministry from what they're already doing. And it's like, man, I don't know where God's going to place me.

Flatcap: I've, I've had some churches that, you know, I've, I've realized like, I'm going to say what I'm going to say in the interview. And if you don't buy the vision I have, then it's, I'm not the right person for you. And I ain't got time to wait around and us butt heads at each other because I'm trying to get you somewhere that you are not called to go. That's not going to work. But along the way, there's still a whole bunch of, yeah, the church has been hurt. There's a lot of churches that are hurting, which is the right one I'm supposed to go to. I don't know. Actually, I've got a conversation with a church in three hours. It's not an interview yet. It's just, Hey, your name got given to us, which the way they got my name is really kind of odd. I went and did pulpit supply for a nursing home and the, the sound guy at the nursing home loved what I said so much.

Flatcap: And then went to the chaplain on Monday after the service, got my name and turned it into his church. Who's been looking for a pastor for quite some time, who has a whole bunch of trauma and I won't share it here, but a whole bunch of trauma of people leaving the church on this side of COVID. So it wasn't COVID related, uh, that they need to heal from. And it's like, man, is that where I'm supposed to go? God to the church that needs that. And then also still have this vision for, for digital. Now, I don't know where God's calling me, but I'm impatient. I want to start tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah.

Romans1014XP: And it's like, um, it's like that one ministry, right? Sometimes it's like, we want to go faster than God wants. Sometimes it's sometimes we want them to slow down. Right.

Flatcap: Well, and part of it too, is like, I have been working in refining what I think God's calling me to for six months. So I'm just waiting to be able to share to that church. Here's what I see God calling me to do. Do you want to do that? And I'm waiting for that church to say yes. And I don't know how long that's going to take. I mean, realistically, if it's, if it's Christmas, that's great. It won't be before Christmas, you know, all the processes of church and all that stuff. It'll, it'll take time. But, uh, that, that would like, man, I, I've said this to my wife several, she's probably got to get tired of me saying it. Since I have been doing digital ministry, I've not been as excited about ministry since I came out of seminary. The, the aspects of what I get to see and hear God is up to.

Flatcap: It's just like, you don't see it when you're just going from sermon in the pulpit to sermon in the pulpit to whatever operations are going on in the local church. That you go from event to event to event throughout the week in preparation and you miss the relationship aspects and you miss seeing what God's up to in the church down the road. And you miss what God's up to in the church in the next town because you never have exposure to it. And in digital spaces, I just get constantly exposed to what God is up to. And it's so much fun.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. And not to say, cause it's, it's, it could be very easy to, to be in digital and live that same way. Right. Stream to stream community event to community event. Right. And, and not participate or be proactive about the relationship part. So it, in, in either space, it's super, super important. Yeah.

Flatcap: So we've got, we got, man, several really great things that you're able to share. How about some difficulties that you've faced with being a streamer? It could be stuff from tech stuff or financial stuff, or it could be personal stuff outside of streaming. Like, how do you balance all of that? Like, what are been some difficulties that you have had to face and overcome?

Romans1014XP: Well, I think, and this has touched every part of, of like my wife and I look at it. All the things that we do is like one ministry. Yeah.

Flatcap: Yeah. Totally.

Romans1014XP: So a lot of times, a lot of times the quote unquote challenges or struggles are across the board, like, or they, they affect everything. I would say one is, is, and this isn't unique to me or even to just being in ministry, but I think it definitely lends itself to ministry a lot is trusting, trusting God. You know what I'm saying? That's probably, you know, like, and, and in my, and for me, what I mean by that is, is man, I came from so many years of being the person called into a room because I was the one that I had to like make decisions or coach through a, through a challenge or write or help, or help fix a crisis, whatever it is. I was like the, the buck stopped with me where in the roles that I played and it was, man, it was hard for me.

Romans1014XP: It was hard for me to step into a role or, or it was hard for me to realize and understand that I stepped into a role where I'm just here to work, right? I'm just here to work. And it's ultimately God is the one that's, that's guiding everything and driving everything. And I have to trust his guidance and where he's taking things. And I have to surrender that desire to be in control, that desire to know what's around the corner so that I can anticipate and prepare and, and, and be proactive in that, right? Because like as a lawyer, I was always trained to think about all the possible outcomes so I could be prepared for each one to, to even when I'm talking to you to think about what you might say, so my follow-up could be, could be precise, right?

Romans1014XP: And all these things that were just almost like antithetical to how I had to handle my relationship with, with being the hands, you know, being part of the God's hands and feet. Like it was so different for me and it took months, you know, it took months of, of me kind of coming to understand that. And the same thing happened with Twitch where I felt like I was forcing it to be something that I thought it had to be. And then taking it back to what we said earlier, where I was like, well, like I'm praying on it. And I remember I just having like this, this epiphany, if you will, saying, dude, just build caring relationships. That's all you're here to do. That's all you have control over. So like, you know what, build caring relationships, create a space that you would want to be a part of, right? Where you can build relationships with people and let God worry about the rest, you know?

Romans1014XP: And, and I think that was like, uh, a lot of my other challenges stemmed from that. You know, if I was worried about finances, it was because of trusting God and his vision for what we're doing. If I was struggling with time management, it was because of trusting in God and feeling how to do all these extra things that he's supposed to take care of and not me, you know? And so, so much of it stemmed from that and that when I kind of dealt with that cause, a lot of the symptoms started, started going away for lack of better words, you know? And so like, that was, that was the biggest struggle. And sometimes that trusting God meant like when we planted, like just recently, I'll give you an example.

Romans1014XP: When we, when we actually started having in-person services, man, I got busier because now I have to worry about preparing an in-person sermon and all this stuff and all the technical things with production and all this stuff going on. It's just my wife and me right now that are like really like all the time involved in, in production and all that. And, uh, and the ironic part is that I'm the, I'm the one that's like the tech savvy person and I can't be behind the cameras and behind all the lights and all this stuff. So I have to like work with my wife on those things. And so that affected my, my energy and ability to be consistent with Twitch. So there was a few weeks in a row where I usually try to go on at least twice a week, if not three. And dude, I was lucky if I did one, cause I just was burnt out and I had to prioritize temporarily some things for our IRL church.

Romans1014XP: And this had to suffer or suffer not the right word. I had to just like, uh, invest a few hours that week or two. And, and then I'm like, ah, but you know, with Twitch is about consistency. If you're not there, people are just not going to show up. They're going to go somewhere else. And that's true. And I'm not saying that, that, that didn't happen. But at the same time, going back to the dude, just trust God. If, if, if this is, if this is part of the ministry that he has planned for you, if this is where he wants to bear fruit, then my man, do what you got to do, steward the things he's asking you to steward. And even if you take a dip for a week or two, a month, whatever it is, trust that God's going to have the same fruit bear. Cause he's the one that wills it, not you. I'm like, I, okay, I get it.

Flatcap: The, the, the, the phrase that I heard, uh, NCMS, I want to say three years ago was, are you, are you ready to trust God again? I'm like, I don't want to do it again. I already did this. Like I've, I've done this. I've done it many times. Why do I have to do it again? And yet, if I go look at the call of Abraham, it is trust God. And then it's still trust God. And 25 years later, it's still trust God, uh, that you're going to have a son and you finally have the son. Oh, wait, it's not done trusting God. You know, he's 13 or 14, whatever it is. Now go sacrifice him. You got to trust God again. It's like, whoa. And then you got to send a servant off to go get a wife for him. You got to trust God again. Like, like just go look at the story of Abraham. And it is a constant trust God again story.

Flatcap: And then if you want to take the people of Israel, when they come out of egg, out of Exodus, they can't trust God this day after he fed them. Like he can't trust them. They can't trust them the next day.

Romans1014XP: Yeah.

Flatcap: Like Abraham was a microcosm for his people. Right. Right. And so it's like, okay. Why? I know I've got to trust you again, but man, it'd be so easy to not like, can't the trust? I trusted you 25 years ago, be, be enough. And then, and then I'm going to turn that around and say, well, no, logically that can't be. That'd be like saying, well, I told my wife when we got married, I love you. And I'll tell you if I changed my mind. That don't work.

Romans1014XP: Good luck with that.

Flatcap: That don't work. So why, why, and I know it's not the same, but it's, it's still like, why would we think that trusting and having loyalty to God would change? And why do we constantly want to take it back and have control over it instead of trusting God? Right. Right. But I do.

Romans1014XP: Absolutely. I do. Yeah. And so, I mean, that, that kind of, I am not to sound cliche, but that's really, that's been the common theme throughout. Yeah. You know, I've, I've talked to the members of our church and my family about that. It oftentimes feels like trusting in the fog, right. Of stepping, right. You put one foot in front of the other, not knowing where you're stepping. And I like to use the analogy of, of, you know, George Washington crossing the Delaware and the story of how the soldiers, when they got on those little tiny boats, it was a Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve. One of those two, it was, it was Christmas Eve, I think.

Flatcap: Christmas Eve. Yeah. Cause the Germans were celebrating Christmas.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. So it was Christmas Eve and it was like, he told them to get on this boat, that this plan is going to work. They don't know if there's enemies around them. They don't know if there's other hazards around them. They can't see a foot in front of them on these little tiny boats. And they just had to have faith that that small little boat was going to get to where their leader told them it was going to be. And I was like, oftentimes faith is like that. Oftentimes our journey is like that and that you have enough confidence in what the leader has already done in your life, right? Of what the father has done in your life, that you will get on that small boat and have faith in the fog because you know that he's been faithful and he's never failed you. And so, and so I try to remind people that this isn't made, you might be in the fog right now, but think about where he's been faithful.

Romans1014XP: Think about what he's done in your life, where he's shown up and proven to you who he is and that he's faithful and use that to help you get through this fog and just put one step in front of the other. And so like, and I say all that, not because I got that figured out people's I say that because I got to give myself, I might as well record that and put that on like auto.

Flatcap: Like I totally get the, I'm not telling you, I'm telling me, you know, I, you know, I'm

Romans1014XP: telling you so you can remind me when I go.

Flatcap: Yeah. Well, it's like, you know, I can't remember if it was in seminary or if it was another training that I did, but essentially is you have to preach to yourself before you can preach to people. Like if you didn't get this message and you're not applying it to yourself, how can you go and tell other people to do this? Like, you know, you can't just go pick the message that you've got and everything all right. You know, like I'm going to, I'm going to go tell everybody how to raise their kids. Cause I did it perfectly. And it's, uh, it's amazing. And you just got to do it the right way. And so just listen to me now, man, don't listen to me. I, I, I screwed up a whole bunch of stuff. I like, I don't, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, good luck. That's what I'll tell you. Uh, you know, take it to God. He he's got a better plan than I do.

Flatcap: Uh, he's got better advice than I do, but, but we, yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah.

Romans1014XP: I mean, you often that's, I have a new appreciation for when, uh, when the apostle Paul says, you know, not when James says, like, not everyone is called to teach. Right. I thought that as a academic or intellectual endeavor or something in that vein. And, and as I've, as I've done my best to, to take on that role, that responsibility, not everyone is called to teach. I'm also reminded is not everyone is called to teach because oftentimes we teach from our own scars and our own wounds and our own experiences. And that's scary to be up on a, in a pulpit, on a stage or on a, on a camera and have to, and have to show that, right. Have to be vulnerable that way. And I say that because I, I didn't think about that until someone, I, I, I thought it was a compliment.

Romans1014XP: I still think it is, but someone said, man, you're like, someone called me, called me, someone in, in Twitch or discord and said, you're like the, like Ted Lasso of pastors. And I was like, I never saw the show. And I was like, Oh, I'm thinking it's a good show. And I'm like, Oh, thanks, man. That's so cool. Then I went and watched it and I was like, man, this guy's full of all this stuff that he's telling people, but he's broken and he's using his brokenness and experiencing his brokenness to be a good leader, a good coach, a good father figure on stuff. And I was like, I was like, is that a compliment? Or are you trying to tell me about, you know what? I'm gonna take it as a compliment because that's how God's called me to be a pastor, a preacher, a disciple maker, brother in Christ is my life was about ego and all about me.

Romans1014XP: And now it's about using my imperfections and my failures and the things where, where I faltered in order to, to show other people how great God is and was and will be, you know? And so, and I wouldn't have it any other way, you know? And so if that makes me quote unquote, if you think I'm Ted Lasso because I'm willing to show you my flaws and my, and my, and cry in front of you and show you those things, then so be it. If that's what's going to help you take one step closer to Christ in your relationship, then I'll, I'll cry all the time. Like just give me a box of tissues every day. We got, I got you, you know?

Flatcap: I got, I got mine right here.

Romans1014XP: There you go. I'll just pick up the shirt.

Flatcap: I have learned. I keep them handy. I, I can say I, I even usually do when I'm preaching too. Cause I mean, there are times where I will just get hit with the spirit with something when I'm praying for the people or, you know, something in the message or if we're doing communion, I've just learned. I, I, I need tissues close by at hand cause the spirit's gonna, gonna just be, uh, you know, resonating with me sometimes.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Yeah. It happened to me enough. You and I were both fortunate enough to be a part of North Hills. Remember this summer camp series.

Flatcap: Oh man. Yeah.

Romans1014XP: And I know, dude, I know it happened to me during mine where we had the Q and a afterwards. I lost it for a quick second just because some of the questions I was back and forth, but in the moment I feel kind of like, I don't want to say embarrassed, but you feel a little emotional, a little vulnerable. And you feel a certain way about it. But then after the fact, you realize where that came from and that, you know what? Somebody might've really picked up on that. You know what I'm saying? And, and we've got, we've got a raid coming in from himself. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Speaking of connections, right. Speaking of connections that God makes for you. Yeah. That has allowed, that has allowed me to, to be better at what I do here and also have more confidence in what I'm doing here and help me. And that whole conversation we're having early about trusting God.

Romans1014XP: I know he doesn't do stuff like this for this. And I know he's probably going to wag his finger at me, but bigunk is someone that I have reached out to like offline, like, you know, in DMS and stuff. We've had some conversations where, where he's encouraged me to do what I'm doing. Yeah. He's encouraged me to be me in how I do this.

Flatcap: Absolutely.

Romans1014XP: And I, I just, I'm very thankful for all the relationships I have on here, yourself included. And, but bigunk is definitely one of the, definitely one of the guys that, uh, that I lean on and look to towards like how to bring my authentic self to this space. So I, I do appreciate that relationship. And if any of y'all are not following bigunk, he's an amazing brother in Christ. Um, and so definitely give him a follow. Yeah. I love what he's doing there. And I, and that's, again, one of the communities that I try to hang out as much as possible, regardless of how busy I am.

Flatcap: Oh yeah, I do. I do end up usually rating probably once a week or, or every two weeks. Cause I got a lot of people I raid, but I'm, I'm always wanting to bring people over to, to bigunk's community. So bigunk, welcome in. Let me just welcome everybody that comes in. I love doing that. Shelly Bella. Welcome in. Good to see you. Sooner fan for life. Tarp. I'm not sure what the Tarp is. Sooner fan for life. Welcome in. Good to have you in here. Pabstio coming in. My husband's blessing. Isn't that a great name? Because I'm sure that is true. Simply Jen. Good to see you, friend. Nine passion. Welcome in. Welcome in. Sight giver. Good to see you. Kim possible. Seven 11. Welcome in. Welcome in.

Romans1014XP: Welcome in. And thank you for the blessings, bigunk.

Flatcap: Thank you for the lug. Thank you for trusting us. With the community. And if you have not checked out, Big Onk KB has been on the podcast. So definitely go check out that episode. You'll find it on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple. You should be able to find that one. Let me see. Lady J. 77. Welcome in. Welcome in. Welcome in. Welcome in. Welcome in. One shiny penny. I always think that's fun to say. One shiny penny. Welcome in. All right. I think I got everybody. You both are an inspiration to me. You're so welcome, friend. This is one of those things where when it talks about iron sharpens iron, that's exactly what this is. We are all seeking after what God is leading us to. And we all have edges where we're sharp and we all have edges where we're dull.

Flatcap: And so, you know, staying connected with Romans, staying connected with Big Onk, staying connected with, you know, you're talking about North Hill Live, like all of these other brothers and sisters in Christ that we stay connected with, help sharpen us. We are there for the building up and encouragement of one another and helping them. And it is just fantastic what God is doing. And, um, man, to think like, like I said this, like a, you know, before I started the podcast, like, what do I have to contribute to this space? I like, I love listening to podcasts, but I've got nothing to talk about. And, and then it was just the simple question of, Hey, we're not doing anything with the church digitals discord channel. Would you want to do something with that? And then it was like, well, what could I do?

Flatcap: And then it just, it just got birthed out of that simple question of, do you want to go do something with this? And I'm like, yeah, I think the church needs to know about what people are up to in Twitch. Now I'm doing this on Twitch. So, I mean, I'm, I'm trusting that it's the people who are exploring Twitch that, that, that need the encouragement that he's going to, going to, going to reach out to. But also, and we talked about this earlier, I also want to highlight what you're doing and celebrate what you're doing and encourage you and your community to stay in it with whatever God's leading you to do. And if it is take a break, then trusting God that you've already reached who you need to, or, or that the community that you built is strong enough to withstand you taking the time off you need for other things and being able to come back to it.

Flatcap: I think that's one of the things that the world doesn't tell us to do is to trust it's, you've got to do more because what have you done for me lately? You know, you, you've done this. What do you, what, what's the bigger thing that you've done? Oh, you've done a 24 hour stream. When are you doing a 48 hour stream? Oh, you've done a 48 hour stream. When are you doing a week long stream? You know, it's like, nope, I'm not going to get into that. That's not going to be healthy for me. And, and, and for other people that can be totally healthy. So not picking on that, but just whatever the lie is that I'm giving into, am I trusting God or am I trusting in the lie that says I have to do this in order to be effective? I have to do this in order to be reaching people. I have to do this in order to, to bless my community.

Flatcap: No, no, I, I need to be who I am, which, which is why I've got the flat caps and there's not very many people, you know, donning the Flatcap out there in the world yet.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Agreed. Is there anything that you do want to share? You want to talk about that? We haven't touched on at all. Man. I'm like, let's see. Well, well, I, I guess I'll just, I'm looking at the chat and I'm, I'm seeing some folks. I mentioned earlier that I am, I'm privileged to be a part of the Faith Forge gaming content creator team. Uh, we do have, if you do love playing seven days to die, uh, well, I'm, I'm shamelessly plugging my involvement there, but first and foremost, the community is awesome. If you're looking for a, a, uh, a community of Christian gamers and fellowship to do Bible studies, uh, we even partnered our church, Life on Mission Church, actually, again, when I told you about the discord thing, Life on Mission Church wanted to have a discord and do all these things right now, we're just, that's not in the cards for us.

Romans1014XP: We don't have the time, the bandwidth for that, but Faith Forge gaming has an awesome discord and, and we knew we wanted to do a weekly, we call it LOM connect online Bible study and our, not online Bible study, but creating a community group like we have here in IRL, trying to recreate that somehow digitally. And so Matt was gracious enough, gracious enough to allow us to use one of their quote unquote rooms, uh, Bible study room to host our Life on Mission Church, uh, community group on Thursday evenings. Uh, and so like, that is an awesome partnership that we were able to have as well. So I'm thankful to the community for that. One of the other things I do in that community is I lead the seven days to die community. And what that means is that we have a separate area in discord where we talk about the game.

Romans1014XP: Uh, whenever I stream, I invite the community members to join me in that dedicated, uh, dedicated server. And we have an event every month. We do at least once a month. We haven't planned hours for this month yet, but it's usually on the weekend, Saturday or Sunday evening where we plan a community event to play seven days to die together. And if you aren't familiar what that is, uh, it is, I, I, I jokingly call it Minecraft with better graphics. People that played Minecraft clutch their pearls at me as do the people that play seven days to die, but it's a zombie survival, first person shooter building game. Uh, so it's very similar and you get to play with, with other people survive together and forged by grace, speaking of collaboration, who the creator of the forge Bible bot, he, he created the server for us, hosted the server for us and built this whole little compound for us.

Romans1014XP: Probably not the best word to use, but it is a, you got a chapel there, our garage and all this stuff where we do a devotional ahead of time before our streams. And then we go out and, and start surviving the zombie apocalypse together. So that's something we do. If that's fun, if you think that's a cool thing you'd like to be, to be a part of, come check us out. Uh, I, I stream traditionally Tuesdays and Thursdays, one 30 to five 30. Uh, that might change based on my school schedule that I was mentioning earlier, but we shall see. Uh, but that's kind of what we do. I use a feature called Twitch integration. Some of you may be familiar with, but Twitch has an awesome partnership with some of the games where the chat can be heavily involved in the streamers game.

Romans1014XP: Twitch integration is among, in my opinion, among the best applications of this, because even though you don't have the game, you can use your channel points to purchase game points that allow you to spawn zombies on people, to send crates and help out, or to mess with my controller, make it so I can't hear anything. You just do all these crazy things in game. And it really makes it fun for the entire community. And, and it, as a streamer, it helps, it increases engagement, but more importantly for the, for those that are watching and participating, it just makes it fun. It makes it a blast. And as much as I tease my community that they hate me and want to see my character, you know, meet, meet, meet their end. I, I enjoy it a lot, you know, and we have some good laughs and some good times. So if y'all think that's cool, then check it out.

Romans1014XP: You know, we, like I said, we have a fourth faith forge gaming. We do a community event every month and I stream 7 Days to Die as my main game, probably like 75% of the time. So come check it out, hang out.

Flatcap: Kim Possible was asking for the, the discord that you were mentioning. If you can drop an invite in there and the chat should be able to, should be able to go. I got it pretty open for everything that gets posted to go in there. So.

Romans1014XP: There we go. I believe that'll take you to it. That link has it. I don't, I don't think the link is expired, but go ahead and check there. Yeah. Faith Forge gaming. Awesome community. Matt is, Matt. Matt has been doing, and he's continues to do some great things in there and we love to support what he's doing.

Flatcap: Yeah. That's awesome. You were, when you were describing how you have it set up with the compound and all of that, it reminded me of there, there used to be, and it's shut down now. There used to be a church inside of rust. So I don't know if you know the game rust. So, uh, and I don't know if it operates the same way, but every week the server was wiped and you had to start over again. So you would spend all, so the church would spend all week long building the church building. They had to have somebody in there 24 seven to protect the building from zombies and from other people stealing or scavenging. So they'd have people, workers 24 seven people would come by. They'd say, what do you build it? We're building a church. The service is on Sunday. And they would spend all week long building the church so they could host a church service on Sunday.

Flatcap: And then the game would reset and they'd have to start again on Monday, building a church so they could have a church service on, on Sunday. Uh, what ended up happening is their volunteers got worn out from that constant build it, build it, build it. Uh, but that's the, that was the nature of that. But the, yeah, that, that, uh, do you have a place for people to be able to be there? Well, yeah. Build walls. No, no, no. The server reset every week. So the building disappeared, the walls disappeared, everything disappeared. You started at ground zero every Monday morning and there was nothing in the game. You had to build everything starting on Monday.

Romans1014XP: Well, God bless their resilience. Yeah.

Flatcap: Yeah. They, they, they were in there for several years before they, they finally were not able to keep going. So, but yeah.

Romans1014XP: And Matt put in chat, not to, not to, if you want to learn more about me and in our, in our community, more importantly, learn more about the Faith Forge gaming community. You see, there's a link in chat, uh, where you can learn more about me and the community. And, and also if you want to support, there's some cool, there's to go the heart that, that Matt has for, for the community and for those that support his community, um, as part of his creator team, uh, we do have a, a merch store for the, for the creator team. He put a link to that. If you're so inclined and want to support, we appreciate it, but that's, you know, more importantly, we just want you to find, find the community. If you're looking for one, come check it out. And as Matt says, yeah, it's, it's a lot of work what he does there, but it's very much appreciated.

Romans1014XP: And obviously for a cool cause and for the ultimate cause of, of spreading the gospel and, and building caring relationships so that we can earn the trust to share the good news of Jesus Christ.

Flatcap: So yeah, that's awesome. So let's, let's, let's shift towards looking at the, at the end of the year. So tomorrow is your one year streamiversary. Do you have, do you have anything planned for that? Or what are your plans? What are you looking forward to for the rest of the year? We already mentioned reach. So you don't, you don't have to mention that, but just what is it that you have planned? You're excited about? You're looking forward to the rest of this year?

Romans1014XP: Yeah, well, probably true to form. I don't have anything planned for my, like, it was also my affiliate anniversary in like 10 days. So I was going to, I was thinking about doing something combined that didn't make sense to celebrate both like separately. But I think true to form into what this platform has been, most of, most of our upcoming streams are with other communities. So like this Saturday, this Saturday, I'll be a blessing boat. And then we have next week. Well, today I'm with you this Saturday blessing boat next week, Friday, we have the, the reach mania kickoff show. And then we have our, as Faith Forge, Faith Forge gaming, we have our quarterly raid, I believe next Saturday. I believe it's next Saturday, right? I'm looking at my calendar. I believe it's next Saturday.

Romans1014XP: And Forged, um, Forged by Grace and I will be, will be combining our, our slots to play seven days to die together for a couple of hours. So that'll be fun. Definitely come check out the raid event next Saturday. All the information in our discord. So, yeah. So like I didn't have plans to celebrate anything, um, instead of throwing a party in my place, well, I decided to take the party a bunch of other places, I guess is the way it is.

Flatcap: Yeah. That's pretty cool.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. So it, it kind of worked out that way, but I think it's kind of true to form to the community that we have that we rather just bring whatever we got going on somewhere else and joining someone else to celebrate. Yeah.

Flatcap: Is there, is there anything that you're, you're going to be doing with your, your house church, you know, network? Is there anything coming up with them?

Romans1014XP: Uh, right now we are the next, we're, we're, we're, we've learned how to do a good in-person service. The next thing we're, we're going to be doing starting November is, is, uh, digitizing that streaming it and trying to find someone that can not just stream it as a item to consume, but to stream it in a way that's engaging and interactive. So whether it's streaming it to our Twitch channel, life on mission church does have a Twitch channel that we, we anticipate growing, uh, but also through our app and where we're going to have, uh, probably like, uh, be the light who's on earlier may still be on now. And so she is our digital community coordinator. And so she will likely be the one where, with the fingers on the keyboard, making sure that we are engaging with the people that are watching our stream so that they're just not watching it and, and feeling absent from it or distant from it.

Romans1014XP: But we wanted to create a digital representation of our church, uh, service in a way that made you feel like you were there and, and, and still part of the family. And so like that should be coming in November. And then after we have that, the next step is to really focus on our, what we call our community builder program, where we, again, since we have the resources in place that the cost of every additional plant becomes less and less, right? Because we already put all the, we had the infrastructure already paid for. And so the cost per is, is, um, pennies on the dollar in comparison to what we're spending. So our, our next initiative, if you will, is to really put some, some wind behind the sales of the community builder training program, where we identify folks that feel a calling to start a community and just don't know where to start.

Romans1014XP: Don't know exactly what that even means and where we can, we can pray with them, go through a process with them so that they can see for the discernment process, right? Is this really your calling? And if it is, then how can we get behind you? And maybe your calling is to do this as a community builder, which is what we call our, our local leaders, a community builder for life on mission church. And we can get behind you with the, with the people that are behind us, supporting us, get behind you to support you in planting a LOM fill in the blank, wherever your community is.

Romans1014XP: So I guess a final plug there is if you do feel called to start a local ecclesia, a local community, an in-person community, but maybe traditional large church isn't something that you and your community or your family feel that that's where God's calling you to live that Acts 242 life, then give us a shout and hit us up, hit me up and, and, and we'll talk and see if, if, and pray with you and go through the process of seeing if this is something that you're called to do. And if so, then we can get behind you and support you and then, and then use our resources to help plant an LOM branch, if you will, the micro church, organic church in your community, if you're willing, if you're willing to. So that's, that's kind of like the, that's where we want this to go as kind of our big thing.

Romans1014XP: Right now, we're just making sure we have all our ducks in a row and that we're stewarding everything properly. So then we get to that point, we could really be effective.

Flatcap: Yeah. And I do think that once you go from the, you're in person to you're trying to stream it, you need to reevaluate what you are doing for the audience. That's not in the room and not making the person that's watching it online, feel like a second class citizen. I mean, this is one thing that I'm telling every church that I'm interviewing with, because I go watch their service and all of that and see, I go, you know, it's nice of you to include people at the very beginning and say hello to everybody at home. You never said anything about them again, the rest of the time, no one addressed them. So you, what you effectively did is you made them a spectator instead of a participant. So that's, that's my language there of how do you make the person who's not in the room a participant? That's, that's the key. I think that we need to figure out is how to do that.

Flatcap: Uh, that's actually when I get time, that is my next article that I want to write is how do I think through a service to make people who are watching live participants. Then after I figure that out, how do I make people participants that are watching this in a VOD? And that would be the harder one, but I'm not trying to solve that one. I'm trying to solve the live question because otherwise I'm just creating content and there's no relationship. So how do I make you a participant? I don't know what your church is doing, but a couple of ones that I've observed and doing is, uh, you know, the church will have everybody turn and greet one another.

Flatcap: And I'm like, put the chat up on the screen in the sanctuary of everybody at home, greeting the people in the sanctuary, and then read some of them, you know, read the greetings from the people who are in the chat in the sanctuary while everybody else is greeting one another, like make them part of this. And then greet the people who are at home. So-and-so, like, I'm just going to read through who's in the chat. Be the light says greetings. Faith Forge Gaming sends greetings. You know, like that's one of my ideas. Like, just start looking at all of the dead air for people at home, you know, pass in the offering plate. Also a dead air space for people at home. I'm not saying in your micro church, you're doing those things, but I'm just saying in a traditional server church that just said we went live, we welcome everybody watching at home and we ignore you the rest of the time.

Flatcap: You just do a regular church service. How do you digitize those things? And some of them may not work. So having a person who takes over the stream while you're doing something live that doesn't work for the people at home to maybe do a Q&A or something or do a prayer, like, you know, there's so many different ways.

Romans1014XP: I'm trying to transition to something else. Yeah, I completely agree to so many ways. And even like for us, one of the things in line with what you're talking about, those are all great ideas. And I saw it be the light put noted. So I'm sure her brain's already, you know, thinking of stuff.

Flatcap: Well, that's why I wasn't going to miss the opportunity to say something because you're talking about how to do that. And this is what I've been, as I've been going through the interview process, trying to work through those. And so I'm getting a list of things that I'm thinking through, which, you know, that's why I said I got to write this up and share it with people.

Romans1014XP: So, yeah. Yeah. And there's also like, for example, we've been this past year, even though we're a small church in a small community, like in the teens, maybe 20 people. But in the past 12 months, we've had a backpack drive and a Thanksgiving drive, one that we're in currently right now, by the way, raising money for local families who are who've been deemed at risk by the schools that we partner with, but we've been able to do a lot locally with a little bit of that we have. And the fact that we don't have a big building to pay for whatever allows us to use our resources for ministry that way. Another plus for our model. However, we don't want it to be where the arrow is always going from where people are to where LOM Central, so to speak, is.

Romans1014XP: And so like one of the things that we have discussed is as we have more members in certain communities, if we have five, six, seven people in Long Island, in Detroit, wherever, well, what are some what are some local initiatives or local things that we can do to help the community they live in? It doesn't just have to be here where we are physically located. But if if our members or those that are participating, they're part of our family or somewhere else, then how is it that we can then do some good in that community where they live so that so that they can. Yeah. All the members of our church, whether digital or in person, should be participating in all the things that church life involves. And it just doesn't mean listening to a service and changing your own life from a spiritual standpoint.

Romans1014XP: Those things are obviously important, but it also means, you know, it's we call the, you know, the up in and out. Yes, we need to be we need to be right with God. We need to be in the word working on the up relationship. We need to be working on the in relationship and fellowship and breaking bread with each other. But we also need to be working on the out in serving the community and bringing the light to other places. And we how do we work on the out? Not only here where we're physically located in Ocala, Florida, but if we have if we have members and family of our church that are involved in other places, how do we bring that light there physically so that they can feel that they're really participating in the life of the church, not only on the screen, but in person in their community as well. And that's something that we really want to make sure is prioritized.

Flatcap: Yeah, that's fantastic. I love I love that aspect of you are there. How do we help you in your community do that? You know, are you familiar with blessed practices?

Romans1014XP: Blessed practices? No.

Flatcap: OK, Dave Ferguson. Actually, you know what you can go to since since you think you're digital. Jeff Jeff Reed, along with the Dr. John, man, what is the name of the book? Sharing Jesus online. And if you hit Jeff up, he may have a copy that he could give you digitally. So you just you just be able to get that sharing Jesus online. What it takes, blessed practices, which is begin with prayer. Listen, enjoy shared experiences, serve and then share Jesus with them. But if you're going to try to help people in their own community, figure out what they can do for their neighbors, because there's not a community there. That's how you could do it. They begin with praying for their neighbors. They start listening to the Holy Spirit and they listen to what their neighbors say, like, oh, I just moved in the neighborhood and I don't have a lawnmower. Aha, I know how I can serve you.

Flatcap: I can go mow the lawn for you. You know, if it's in person, it can be eating. So you can invite people over to have a meal. You can take a meal over to a person. You know, there's those aspects of things. And then you serve and then you share Jesus. So if they were going to go serve and they found out this person needs this need, you could as a community do this and that person in that, in that, in where they live would be able to say, yeah, my online church community helped fundraise to get your need taken care of. And they want to love you in this way because I shared your need with them. Like, there's a way that, that you could do that remotely. So like, yeah, either go read Dave, Dave Ferguson's book or, or read Jeff Reed's book. They're, they're all the same ideas. Just Jeff has focused more on how do we do this digitally as well.

Flatcap: So, so to go back to what we were mentioning there of, uh, the question got, uh, we're worried about bots taking over and stuff. So I was asking what, what platform you're on YouTube. So maybe it's one of those where you don't put them on screen. You have the person who is the moderator for the church, be the one who is in charge of reading those and sharing those or putting together the prayer list, you know, for the, for the in-person. So you would, you would have a go-to person, uh, like you would have a mod that helps you as a streamer. You have a mod that helps to communicate to the in-person and they also would share back and forth in, in that way. So yeah.

Romans1014XP: You can put stuff on the confidence monitor if you have one, like things from, uh, from chat so that you can share with the group. Yeah. Those are all great ideas. And those are the kinds of things that we, we want the digital experience to not just be a stream of our live service. We want it to be engaging and that it's there in the room with us. And, and not only that they are a part of what's going on physically, but I like what you said that those that are physical can feel that they can connect with those that are online because we, we really like, we talk about it being a, it's like we mentioned earlier, the two doors, one building, right? The digital door and the physical door.

Romans1014XP: And, but we don't, we don't just want it to be where there's the folks that come in physical, folks that come in digital, but that they should be kind of, they should be entering this, each other's spaces, so to speak. Yeah. And because it's one church. So like we have some folks that come to our in-person gathering who also participate in our digital stuff. Yeah. And people in digital that come to our in-person, right? And so that's really what we want it to be, where it really, it really all is one church. Yep. Right. And not that there's, not that there's online versus in-person.

Flatcap: Yeah. Well, one, one thing you could try, which I've tried this before. Well, I ran, why did I try this? Anyway, it was a long time ago. I tried, tried with Twitter, having the congregation tweeting questions while I was up front. So even before I knew any digital streaming stuff, I was trying to utilize Twitter to have in-person engagement while I was up front. So I could, you know, have audience participation. But what if once you do get to the point of live streaming, there are people who are sitting there in person with you who are on their phones, participating also in the digital space while they're participating in the in-person space. So that, that could absolutely be building that relationship back and forth with the online community and the in-person community. Cause you could be in both at the same time.

Flatcap: Not every church, not every church is going to embrace that, but you have an opportunity. You could build that in your DNA as a, as a part of, yeah, we, we do believe on in-person and online is who you're supposed to be. So why not do both at once?

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Yeah. Like one of the things that I've, I've wanted to do and what we will do some in one way or another is, is like the, you have, you have the greeting in the morning where you're shaking hands and, and saying, hugging people as people are coming into church, but how are we doing that for the in-person people? Like maybe just, just jump on the camera real quick and talk to the people that are online and welcome, welcoming people in personally as the pastor. Yeah. Like, oh, thank you so much, blah, blah, blah. And then after the fact, after you, after you give hugs and shake hands and stuff and say your goodbyes at the end of service, if you have someone still warming the room with your digital folks, then you come on, right. And say, Hey, you know, thank you guys, you know, whatever.

Romans1014XP: And just talk to them, talk to them right there live, but focusing on the people that are digital, where they might be able to ask questions or give you feedback, or you could just love on them and maybe pray for them specifically or, or, or answer prayer requests. Right. Oh yeah. That are happening right there. So it's just trying to find ways that, that they don't feel separate and apart or, you know, from the people that are there and just being, you gotta be intentional. And like you were saying earlier about sometimes it inconveniences you and how you are, you and I don't like using that word inconveniencing, but sometimes I say I embrace that because I'm like in a true relationship, in a true loving relationship, you allow yourself to be inconvenienced because of how much you love the other person. Right.

Romans1014XP: Because I mean, there's nothing about, you know, price ministry that was convenient. Right. And so if we're called to carry across like him, sometimes it means inconveniencing ourselves for the purpose of, of ministry or more importantly for the purpose of relationship and love. And you don't even have to be a believer to kind of like have that in your DNA. Right. If you love someone, you should be okay with inconveniencing yourself for them.

Flatcap: Yeah. Well, and, and you know, you're talking about prayer there and including, and I really think that's something that you should do. And one of the churches I was interviewing with, they had at the end of their service where they would announce that if anyone needs prayer, we have elders up front. You can come up front and get prayer after the service. And I'm like going, oh my goodness, do this digitally. Like your service ends, cut the feed, but have a person who's online, who you just cut to who's that mod I'm talking about that prays with you right there in the space. Like you have it built in. You just need to see, do this because you already have the equipped people to do this. I bet, I bet there's at least two up there that could do this digitally and be fine with it. And, and so you just gotta, you just gotta make a couple of them out. I hope they do that. I hope they do that.

Flatcap: I haven't, I haven't watched them in the last couple of weeks to see if they've made that change or not. They're still interviewing other pastors. They, they told me you're nice and all, but you're not what we're looking for, which is fine. Then I don't need to go there, but I still hope that as I like, there's that point at which do I share these ideas with people of what I would do if I'm here or do I keep them to myself? No, I share them because, because they're not my idea. They're the Holy Spirit's idea, you know? So why would I not give them something if the Holy Spirit said, Hey, here's something you could do to build on the community you have and build the relationships you have? Cause I think that one for them, they had a, they had a decent amount of live stream viewers. They were on two different platforms. I know on one of them, they were at least 150 sometimes.

Flatcap: So I'm like, you got 150 people watching you live. That's only how many are showing up. How many people are actually in the room? Cause there's probably two or three watching instead of that. Like you start engaging those people in prayer. They're going to, some of them are going to be close by. They're going to start showing up. But anyway, um, there, if we, if we go in that direction, I'm just going to keep giving suggestions. No, absolutely. Of what to do. Like I said, I'm not, I am, I am, uh, storing up all of those things. I need to, I need to write that article here. Maybe what I will do is work on it when I'm gone for all my travel coming up. I, I will be at my mom's house for about a week and then I'll be on vacation for a week and then I'll be at reach conference and then I'll come back and I'm going to exponential central. So. Amen.

Romans1014XP: And once you have that written and I have all my certifications, then we can go around and be a duo of like, you know, this is how you do the tech and this is what you do with the tech.

Flatcap: Yeah. Yeah. There you go. There you go. I love it. I love it. All right. You, uh, you're going to keep streaming or. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to, we're going to, I'm going to go on until about five 30.

Romans1014XP: Okay, great. Then play some games.

Flatcap: Then, uh, I'll raid over to your community and bless you. Hey, thanks everyone who was hanging out. If you came in with the raid, what a blessing you are coming in with that raid and how blessed you are to hang out with big on KB. Love his heart for God. Love his community. Amen. Anytime I am over there, I feel at home. It's one of those things where there's a part of me that just selfishly wants to quit doing content and just hang out with, with other people, but I'm also supposed to platform other people. So, so glad to have you come in Romans. It's been a pleasure. I can't wait to see you in a month's time. It's going to be fun. Uh, I will, I will message you more of when I'm actually there. I know you said you had something going on pre reach conference. I will be in there starting on Sunday. Uh, I should say Monday.

Flatcap: So if something does work out, if something changes, uh, you know, let me know.

Romans1014XP: Yeah. Let me know the way. Cause I know, I know folks are planning. Does it cook out that Wednesday? Some folks are going to Epcot during that week.

Flatcap: So I'll, I'll, I'll be hanging out for, it was just, it was just more convenient to hang out longer than to not to go back home and then come back. So.

Romans1014XP: Right. Understood. All right, brother, man. Thank you so much. Yeah. Always a good time. And we got to connect more often.

Flatcap: We, you know, I, that's just it. I keep building new relationships. It's just like, it's hard sometimes to keep up with all of the ones that you have, but yeah, we definitely do.

Romans1014XP: All right. Let me find so I can start the raid. There we go. All right. Raid is on a roll.

Flatcap: I, one thing that I do, I will say the church digital is going to be starting. So it'll be here on Twitch. We are going to do a nine week Bible study. I believe it's 5. PM Eastern time on Tuesdays. That's going to start like October 13. I think it's October 13. Wow. Yeah. It's October 13. So we'll be starting at, I haven't got the promo stuff for it, but we're going to be doing the HEAR method. So it's, you're going to read a passage of scripture, highlight it, explain it, apply it, respond to it. But it is community led. It's not leader driven. And so we're trying to model that as a way to show people you can do digital discipleship in a live experience with people. So you'll be able to join in the chat. It'll be right here on the church digital channel. So if you want to check that out, more info will be coming out soon. Awesome. All right. Thank you, everybody.

Romans1014XP: Have a blessed day. Thanks for that, Cap. W podcast, W podcast. Oh yeah, man. That was awesome. Thank you. Bye.