Session 5: Won without a word, and blessing for insult

Jeff Reed all right hey everybody welcome to scattered episode five of season one we're doing a bible study we the church today i'm jeff i'm founder of the church digital we're doing a bible study going through first peter here on twitch and setting this up and it's been a fun we're going to get into the experience here a little bit. We're talking about 1 Peter 3, which, to be honest, when I selected the Bible study, 1 Peter, I did not remember this section of 1 Peter that we're going to be discussing about. And if I did, I certainly would have scheduled Layton to be hosting this session and not me. But we're going to get more into that here in a little bit. I'm looking forward to the conversation today. But hey, before we get going, just a quick thing. The Church Digital, we launched our merch store. Oh my gosh he's he's doing the tables and jesus come flip it outside the temple but uh we've got the church.digital slash shop shop some fun stuff uh to be honest as a creative and a producer it's like my mental stress to create some stuff and release it a lot of inside jokes a lot of scripture a lot of huh that's interesting maybe something you like maybe something you don't there's a lot of stuff that ties into uh first peter and uh scattered on that so the first uh first peter and scattered so the church.digital slash shop go go check that out and that's that's the last i'm going to talk about that we can we can move on to that so hey we had somebody come in at the last minute which is awesome i just want to make sure uh this is all going to work let me thanks thanks for coming on ian jumped on uh here at the last minute and then uh we've got wordy girl and uh david what is it david daily show uh david daily show are you do you stream daily is that what it is, David?

David's Daily Show i used to i used to stream daily but now i've got this thing called a job and it kind of ruined

Jeff Reed Okay.

David's Daily Show everything, so we just keep the name

Jeff Reed Yeah, it kind of does get in the way.

David's Daily Show now.

Jeff Reed So, awesome. And we've got some people watching out in the Twitch verse, and that's great. We've got Magic and Twilight as well. Hello, everyone. And so, welcome to come in. As we're going through the Bible study, we would love for the audience and people that are watching to interact and and share and contribute what your thoughts are, what challenges you, how you're going to apply this. We do, we do this, I explain this every week, but we do a format here with the Bible study called Here, where we take a section of scripture, you know, half a chapter is what we're doing with this season, and just basically we do Here, H-E-A-R. We highlight the scripture. What stands out? What's like the thing that jumps off the page and slaps you upside the head? That's highlight. and then we explain, okay, what's going on in the passage? What are we sensing? What are we feeling? Explain. Apply. Once we're understanding what's happening in the scripture, how can we apply the lessons that we're reading to our lives? How is this becoming real to us? And then our respond, what is God, what is Jesus inviting you to do in regards to the Bible study? H-E-A-R. Honestly, it's a really simple format to do Bible studies on the fly, so to speak. I would love to tell you, you know, I spent 25 hours this week prepping to go over 1 Peter 3. That is not true. I read it about 10 minutes ago and was like, oh, that's what we're talking about today. And so it'll be a fun conversation coming up into that.

WordiGirl Sure.

Jeff Reed But we'd love for you to try the HERE method. There's other methods, of course, that go through this. Here's just one of them. but excited to get started into that. So here's what I'd love to do. Wordy Girl, would you mind open us up in prayer? And then I'm going to invite Ian to read the scripture for us. Is that okay?

WordiGirl Thank you, God, for being good all the time. Thank you for everything you've done, everything you've been doing, everything you will do. Thank you for bringing us here together with this Bible study from all places around the world. Those who are watching, those who may be watching in the future, those who are in the chat right now, and those who are on the screen, we ask you to just bless your word and bless our hearts, bless our minds. Help us to be able to receive what you want us to receive from this word. Help us to be open to learning, open to growing, and help us to grow closer to you and closer to each other through your word. And we thank you in Jesus' name. Amen.

Jeff Reed amen well and then Ian let's get if you wouldn't mind reading through here on this is 1 Peter chapter 3

Ian Kirk yep wives in the same way submit yourselves to your husbands so that even if they refuse to believe the word they will be won over with outwards by the behavior of their wives when they see your pure and reverent demeanor your beauty should not come from outward adornment such as braided hair or gold jewelry or fine clothes but from the inner disposition of your heart the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit which is precious in god's sight for this is how the holy women of the past adorned themselves they put their hope in god and were submissive to their husbands just as sarah obeyed abraham and called him lord and you are her children if you do what is right and refuse to give way to fear husbands in the same way treat your wives with consideration as a delicate vessel and with honor as fellow heirs of the gracious gift of life so that your prayers will not be hindered finally all of you be like-minded and sympathetic love as brothers be tender-hearted and humble do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult but with blessing because to to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing for whoever would love life and see good day is must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech. He must turn from evil and do good. He must seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are inclined to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.

Jeff Reed So, when I selected 1 Peter as the book to go through, 1 Peter wrote the book to a region of Christians that were dispersed because of the Stephen murder, left Jerusalem, and scattered around into five regions in the Mediterranean area. And basically, we're leading house churches. And I'm like, hey, this is a great way to parallel what's happening, you know, with the Christians that were dispersed, to parallel that to us as digital missionaries and people that are on mission in digital space. And so I'm seeing this, I'm reading this, it's great. We're having great conversations talking about Jesus as the cornerstone. Jesus is persecuted. We are cornerstones as well. And the persecution Jesus faces is what we face. But Jesus is the cornerstone is discovered. And through holiness, Like, all of this is really, like, impactful, in-the-vein stuff. And so, I open up the scripture, and I read this, and I'm like, where did that come from? Like, what actually is going on here? It's, I don't know, does this feel, like, in topic, in vain with what we've been talking about before? Is this out of left field? How are you all feeling reading this passage in context of what we've already been studying? who wants to be brave enough to go first

David's Daily Show i i can do it um so i don't think so when it comes to this peter has been talking a lot especially the past couple weeks about um how to build your ministry where to put roots and stuff like that and this is him talking about how to display yourself for others to follow at least at least based on how i see it so you know he's you know he's like if if you're a christian you know don't worry about how people see you on the outside no it's worry about how worry about your strength and faith worry about the inside worry about um all of that stuff so that's that's what i'm getting at least

Jeff Reed Do you have any thoughts coming off of this passage here?

WordiGirl um as you said that he's trying to kind of establish these churches so i feel that there was a kind of you know and you can see it sometimes in the churches

David's Daily Show Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl these days um especially physical churches there's a lot of showiness there's a lot of dressing up there's a lot of like sometimes it's good it seemed that it started to be be something like okay we're going before god let's wear our best but it turned into something

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl more like this is a fashion show let's see who's the best dressed every sunday and this is kind of

David's Daily Show Yep. Mm-hmm.

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl i feel basically saying yes well that's a way to adorn yourself but as a christian as david was saying the outward appearance is more so important when it comes to spirit when it comes to actual obedience to god um rather than just uh adorning with gold and having the fanciest hairstyle and such like that and as it did start off obviously with the wives be in subjection to your own

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl husbands. That's probably one of the more controversial scriptures these days. Whenever I see these scriptures, be it talking about wives, be it talking about children, being respectful to their parents, I just look at the full scripture because some people use

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl these to basically say, well, if you're a wife, anything your husband says, go just follow him because that's what the bible says but if you read the scripture if you keep going it also told the man likewise ye husbands dwell with them according to knowledge giving honor unto the wife

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl so if your husband's not doing that then you being the obedient one you're doing what you're supposed to do but the husband's not doing what he's supposed to do that's not good either the same with it's not in this scripture but you um i can't think of it right now ian would probably know but the one that says um you know uh children obey your parents um but a lot of times people use that to say well whatever your parents say then goes but not all parents are following the rest of that scripture which also says do not provoke your children to wrath it's telling them

Jeff Reed You know, my wife is very quick to quote that one to me.

WordiGirl to grow them up.

Jeff Reed Do not exacerbate your children.

WordiGirl Yeah, exactly.

Jeff Reed I like to do that. So.

David's Daily Show *laughs*

WordiGirl So I think that these kind of scriptures at first glance are kind of controversial because it kind of seems like it's saying just submit to anything.

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl But if you look at the scripture, it really is well rounded because it only works if everybody that the scripture is talking to does the things that they're supposed to be doing, not just one or

Jeff Reed mm-hmm yeah yeah ian's ian's back hopefully ian uh can can stick around um and man listen like

WordiGirl or the other person.

Jeff Reed Ian.

Ian Kirk oh i oh i know it was i know it was me i had to restart my network

Jeff Reed What stands out for you in this passage?

Ian Kirk i think for me is is actually the whole series or i should say the whole progression of submission to one another um because you don't because because you don't just have you know

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

Ian Kirk pet peeve i hate top lines where somebody you know says this entire section means this and it just you know frustrates me at least in my version it all says you know it starts with wives and husbands or wives submit but you know the husband is supposed to submit to the church to jesus christ and the wife has to do the same and and and i and i think that a lot of times what we neglect is because we are so independently minded submitting to one another especially within a community uh just because the arrogant person in a community is going to drive everybody else away.

Jeff Reed Yeah, it says, you know, I think both of you kind of said the same thing, husbands and wives in the same way husbands in the same way treat your wives it's and so like i feel there the the paul or peter is trying to do a comparison here hey i just spoke to the wives now i'm speaking to the husbands and and but i'm i'm kind of saying the same thing but i'll be honest like reading it and maybe it's 2026 culture it doesn't feel like it's the same thing like it it feels more, and just, once again, I may be projecting, I'm kind of asking some insight, but it feels more heavy-handed towards women than men. Do you balance that? Do you feel that? I'm just, I'm being honest on my side right now. I'm just curious what you all feel in that.

Ian Kirk Well, sorry, I was going to just say we have to remember

David's Daily Show When it comes to this, oh, go ahead, go ahead, Ian.

Ian Kirk the culture and that is the husband is culturally the head of the house and by so much to

Jeff Reed Yeah.

Ian Kirk to a degree that even many of our 20th century people uh would struggle with no matter how um complementaritarian they are um and and i think that's that's the part that we kind of forget because the same in the same way the wife having an unbelieving husband is there is i think we neglect that part of it because peter seems to be really driving towards just because you're free in christ or free doesn't mean you're free of your husband of your cultural your social responsibilities so be even better than all those other wives

David's Daily Show yeah

Ian Kirk so you can draw your husband to christ that at least for me is how that comes across

Jeff Reed David, you were going to say?

David's Daily Show yeah um so warrior kind of nailed nailed it right on the head there has to be a balance and i think that especially when it comes to relationships and that's that's what i feel like this is talking about the most is relationships husbands wives and our relationship to God and it's talking about how there absolutely has to be a balance between the three um so you know as men our job or as husbands you know our job is to lead the family towards God you know if we fall behind on that it's the wife's job to check us you know say hey you're faltering and then for us as a team in spirits, you know, in, in, in faith to get back up and bring the family to Christ. So I really think that it's, it's all about balance.

Jeff Reed Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting for me. My wife is very strong-willed. I'm very strong-willed and stubborn. Like, we are, it's funny, we were high school sweethearts, we dated 30 plus years, been married 25 plus years. I saw Warrior of Light saying he's like 30-something years. But when we were dating and in high school, we were like the same person. We were very similar. And, you know, in the 20s, not that we started growing apart, but we started liking different things, you know, started agreeing in different ways, different philosophies. And kids, like, you know, she's gone in her direction with her circle of friends and the things that she's excited about. And surprise, you know, she's not as excited about the Marvel Cinematic Universe as I am. She fakes it really well, but it just, it does not resonate with her like it does for me. And, you know, sitting down and watching Star Wars for like the umpteenth million times, for some reason, she's just not excited when I put that movie on. And so, you know, she does a really good job of connecting with me, and, you know, it's funny, there are times where

David's Daily Show Mm-hmm.

Jeff Reed she leads in the family, and then there's times where she looks at me as like, well, what are you going to do about this, you know, and is inviting me, is wanting me to lead into it. I'm curious, and Ian, I didn't, like, this is just naturally happening. Like, you're in an interesting relationship with your wife, because you both are co-pastors at the church up in the Pacific Northwest. How does that relationship go? Like, can you give us some insight of what it looks like in an egalitarian, but I don't want to say complementary, because it's not complementarian, it's egalitarian, but a co-leading type relationship?

Ian Kirk yeah i you actually bring up a really good point um i i equate it to something like what wolf packs do so there's one wolf that's really good at breaking snow for example well they're not

David's Daily Show um

Ian Kirk necessarily the one in charge, except for this function. Um, and that, yeah.

Jeff Reed Is that a true story? Like there's a wolf that's really good at breaking ice and so like that's specialty.

Ian Kirk Yep.

Jeff Reed Really? I've never heard that before. Okay. Sorry. I just wanted, I'm going to repeat it and I just wanted to make sure it's true. I'm going to say you said it, so I'll give you credit.

Ian Kirk I'm good. Um, but, but I think that's, you know, there are certain things my wife is way better at than I am.

David's Daily Show Mm-hmm.

Ian Kirk Um, there are, you know, my wife, uh, her major in college was communications, mass communications. So she might have a better clue how to do that stuff than I do. My job was procurement. So I'm the one who's blessed with all the contracts and all the things that a church ends up doing just as being an organization so i we generally don't step on each other's toes yes we do every once in a while as warrior of light you know whether it's at home

David's Daily Show I don't know.

Ian Kirk or at church it doesn't matter we still step on each other's toes but but we found our i don't know another way to say it but dance we found our dance that works um some in some stages of the dance she leads sometimes I lead there is a I don't want to say natural but there is a tendency that in certain areas I will lead the house um and in other areas she does because well you know

David's Daily Show Mm-hmm.

Ian Kirk she does it way better than I do and nobody nobody in my home wants me to be responsible

Jeff Reed I don't know.

Ian Kirk for cleaning that's just a very very bad idea um so yeah i mean i i think and i think that's actually a really good way of bringing in with peter is because not everybody i i think you could be tempted to lead when you're not supposed to because you want to lead um there is always that human drive to lead when ill-equipped or not called. And I do wonder if perhaps that's what Peter's leaning towards.

Jeff Reed yeah this you know and i know sometimes you can like pick on words and it's a translation and you know it's gone through decades and centuries of um revision and trying to figure out what the what the best word um this is submissive is the word that i that i just part of me just struggles with in the dichotomy in the relationship of men and women. I'm just curious, wordy girl, because you're a King James, KJV girl, do you have the scripture right there? What is submissive to their husbands? What's the King James version of that?

WordiGirl It says in subjection.

Jeff Reed Is that better?

WordiGirl So if we look at the words, submission, I mean, a lot of these words do get a bad connotation just because I feel, for one, as Ian had said earlier, you do have to remember the culture that Peter was talking to right here. So their structure also was more in this, what you might call traditional sense of structure and things like that, which can be a little foreign to modern times, especially because there are a lot of like independence, kind of like Ian was also saying, most humans, no matter who you are, want to like be in control.

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl they want to like take ownership they want to take leadership they want to you know but sometimes being submissive um can sound weak that's kind of like how i think the other week i was talking about some people think that when we were talking about like turning the other cheek and stuff like that a lot of people call that weakness because they're like well you're supposed to you know fight. But not always. It depends. It always depends. And I feel that, like we were saying that time, it depends on the situation, and it depends on prayer. The most thing that we're looking at here, when it does say, in the King James, if you want to know the exact wording, it says, For after this manner in the old time, the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands. So I feel that the most important person for us to submit to and be in subjection to is God.

Jeff Reed It's interesting the way you said that, it totally stands out.

WordiGirl but when it comes to

Jeff Reed Like the emphasis is more on God than the submissive.

WordiGirl marriage relationships but also other places in the bible as we were talking about child relationships we're talking about friends and even in this situation it says um let's see did it do to say finally be all of one mind is that the eighth is what is what is yours say i just want to make sure it's the same uh the eighth verse yeah okay yes finally all of you so it's basically

Jeff Reed I'll scroll down, I'm sorry.

WordiGirl like first to talk to the wives and talk to the husband is now saying all of you be of one mind having compassion for one another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous. So it's kind of just covering all the relationships, I feel. And it is basically saying that on earth, we do have these structures. We do have these, you know, social structures, basically. And as you said, they're establishing a new church. And Peter is trying to make sure that in this church it's not um you know a bad example for the world when they are looking at us that's what i honestly believe um there was a scripture you might know as well um where i don't know if it was in peter or if it was paul um but some they were talking about some

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl of the women in the church were gossiping or something like that um do you remember that one I can't remember the exact scripture, but when we look at these things, sometimes they

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl are also saying this because of the people they were talking to. Like, yes, it can apply to us as well, but you also have to pay attention to what was going on at the time and some of the stuff they may have been trying to prevent, some of the stuff that they may have been trying to correct that was going on with, you know, those particular people in that time as well. I think David's trying to say something.

David's Daily Show yeah no uh just uh just to kind of jump off uh with what you're saying like a lot of there's been a lot of negative connotation with the word submit or being submissive or being in submission. The best way that I can say this is just submission doesn't equal silence. So just because you are submitting to somebody does not mean you can't call them out. And I think that that's a big thing when it comes to what a lot of people try to skew this verse into is like oh you're you're you're submissive wife you're meant to be submissive you're just meant to go along call me out do it like i and that's that's the thing that that people don't understand just because you follow the head of the house doesn't mean that you can't tell the head of the house when the head of the house is wrong. And so, yeah, just submission doesn't equal silence.

Jeff Reed interesting what is i'm gonna put ian on the spot what is calling you out look like in your marriage both ways how how do you call out uh your wife and how does how does she come correct let's reshape question like you you can insert the adjective you are the verb you want there but what does that look like for you me for me that's really hard like we we've gone through um seasons of um being being very you know doing to others as you would have them doing to you and being very supportive and gentle to be honest in the 25 years we've been through periods of you know not so gentle and and so i'm just curious ian so give me some examples of how correcting or um like what that would look like for you and your wife.

Ian Kirk First, in a place where neither one will be dishonored, so it's not something we do in

David's Daily Show All right.

Ian Kirk public. And then as gently as possible, and being aware of the larger context. So after years of marriage, you start to recognize the mind, the minefields of the emotional minefields of the other person.

Jeff Reed Yeah.

Ian Kirk So instead of dancing into the minefield, you kind of like, okay, I'm going to step very carefully as I say something. If one of us, for example, asks for input, then that's the

David's Daily Show Mm-hmm.

Ian Kirk permission to be a little more blunt. Again, it really does depend. I mean, we each have our own respective minefields. We do, and I'll say this actually with some, I won't say glee, but joy, We do call each other out in our sermons when we preach. It's usually gentle. I mean, it's not it's or sometimes we'll call ourselves out in respect to our spouse, you know, like what I did wrong to my spouse. And that and that really does play well within our relationship, because if each person is willing to say, hey, I messed up publicly. The spouse knows at that point, I'm getting support from this person, even if I wanted to smack them upside the head at the time. So, yeah.

Jeff Reed it's funny. I actually, I, I used this, um, early in our marriage to win every argument we ever had. Um, but when, um, the first couple of years, you know, fighting's the thing, trying to figure out how to live together. And, um, the louder she would talk, the softer I would talk. And eventually she figured out that I was, and she would feel bad, you know, that she's yelling at me and I'm just barely talking at a whisper and then guilt would kick in and she's like, I'm sorry. And then I would win the argument. Well, I played that too many times. And she's like, I know what you're doing. You're talking soft, so you'll win the argument. I'm going to talk soft too.

David's Daily Show I don't know.

Jeff Reed And then we were just basically whisper arguing at each other, which doesn't really doesn't really work out either um you know it's interesting to me do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult but with blessing uh because uh to this you are called so that you may inherit a blessing um how so let me we're we're talking about wives and spouses and husbands and relationships. Um, the earlier context is, is ministry. Like, like David said, it's, it's in ministry of, of how we're connecting in the culture and serving the people. Now we're talking about, um, you know, um, relationships and then we're getting to like, you know, not eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth type of stuff. How, what is the overall theme? You know, where to go? You don't like reading specific verses you like seeing the big picture what's the big picture of of of this section maybe you're the other way you like big drilling in specifics you don't like the big picture but where is the what is the big picture trying to say here

WordiGirl well I do like that I like the big picture I do like to look at specific scriptures but I think what you're remembering is that I don't like when people take one little scripture and then take it out of context basically without looking at what's surrounding it so i'm looking at this

Jeff Reed right yeah there.

WordiGirl whole thing and i feel like it's like what what what david was saying at the beginning i feel like it's just focusing on these relationships focusing on how we're supposed to treat each other yeah it does call out husbands and wives specifically but then it also just basically encompasses everyone and it starts to tell you know like you said do not repay evil for evil insult with insult and that can work even in the digital ministry with those who we are not married to um as we were talking about a week or so ago like if people come into your stream you know insulting you or arguing with you is it beneficial to keep going back forth with them no you kind of have to know when like how ian was saying um how to like approach a situation yes you can correct somebody but um if you're intentionally trying to step on those minds like that's that doesn't sound sincere that seems like you're trying to trigger somebody you're trying to upset them

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl um if you're trying to really correct somebody in love like we were saying last time sometimes this happens off screen sometimes we're like okay we have a discord server we can kind of carry on in there or we could dm or something it doesn't have to be a public spectacle i don't have to win this argument and show everybody how smart I am I can just you know say hey this is how I feel about the situation let you talk what you feel about the situation I feel that because even it says because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing so even even not thinking about our own self in this like we want to be blessed so we're going to do this but also thinking about the other person like how can we bless them as well um is it a blessing to just you know repay evil with evil sometimes we want to get revenge sometimes we want to you know do these things but

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl it's not very beneficial to do it a lot of the time and um like i said last time you have to look at yourself and like are you oh now who is this for is this for their benefit or is this because you're trying to you know prove a point or prove yourself or something so i think it's just those relationships and like the genuine relationship and um you know correction and love basically

Jeff Reed that's um it's interesting you you really kind of poked a bear um and and you know forgive forgive me as having this conversation um i'm married to be honest i'm like i said 30 plus years with with my wife and dating and marriage and i can't even remember a single life for me uh my my kids are the age I was. My kids, you know, my son at this point is the same age at 16 as I was dating my wife now. And I know Ian's been married a long time as well. What does it look like as a single or closer to single? Does any of this, are either of you married? Like, what actually is the marital status? I don't know you guys well enough here.

David's Daily Show I'm engaged.

Jeff Reed Engaged? Okay, wordy girl, it's, sorry to put you on the spot okay every stage so what what actually is the like the the temperature check on this does

WordiGirl All right. Well, I am single. So we have every stage here. We have the single, we have the engaged, we have the married, so...

Jeff Reed does does it burn does it does it can can you like scale it down and apply um are you are you uh you know uh what do you call it ppsd or whatever uh ptsd damage hearing hearing the hearing the scripture, like, like, how does this apply to the different states that you guys are in? Uh, David, why don't you go first?

David's Daily Show yeah so um i'm i might be engaged but i do i do have kids and no no i am i am i am uh but

Jeff Reed Wait, you might be engaged or you are engaged. Okay.

David's Daily Show i also have kids um i have i have three kids and like the the one thing that Sorry, what was the question again? I just blanked.

Jeff Reed yeah how how is this scripture like like wives submit to your husbands husbands uh love and care for your wives as as an engaged person what are you taking away from that

David's Daily Show Oh, you know, my fiancé is watching the stream, so I just want to say, you know, happy wife, happy life.

Jeff Reed oh oh oh honey you better you you better record this and remember

David's Daily Show But, um, no, I think that, I think that especially when it comes to this specific passage that we're reading, it's, it's not only explaining a lot when it comes to digital ministry and how to like, um, address yourselves and present yourself, you know, through, you know, as a, as a digital missionary,

Jeff Reed I don't know.

David's Daily Show But it also is saying, hey, faith starts at home. So if you don't have that faith at home, if you don't have that that dynamic where, you know, like like Ian said, where, you know, you're on equal footing, but there are, you know, specific jobs and stuff like that. and you you aren't basing all of it in faith then you don't really have a soapbox so to speak so you can god is saying like don't only preach it but practice it and that's that's what's that's what's really really standing out to me you know as someone who's engaged as someone who has kids you know being a dad um wanting my kids to be more spiritually attached to Christ and stuff like that. Show that in an outward manner around the family because your family is your first ministry.

Jeff Reed that's good wordy girl um could put you on the spot single um how are you applying in in in feeling like on this is it is it easy to map it together or what what some of your feelings around this

WordiGirl i feel that um there are uh there are some people who are are single um for different reasons i personally um i would like to find a person to be with um on god's time um but as as a single in the mission field in the dating world um i'm more so less so like just looking to date and just more so looking for like-minded individuals um and then if that relationship sprouts into something

David's Daily Show Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl else then you know then we'll see where it goes um but just applying this i feel that it is good to look at the full picture and in my experience um as a single person there have been some people who have wanted to date me who have certain opinions on the scripture that don't quite align with what we've been discussing here.

Jeff Reed yeah

WordiGirl Like I said, a lot of people like to just focus on one part of it, especially the wives.

Jeff Reed right

WordiGirl Stereotypically, a lot of men like to focus on the wife part without scrolling down and seeing the rest of the scripture.

Jeff Reed yeah

WordiGirl So just as a single, I am taking the whole scripture into consideration. When I interact with others and when others interact with me, I know that first and foremost is most important to submit to God. And if I do find, or if a godly husband does find me, then in that way, I would want to be able to submit to him as he submits to God and as he honors me as well and hopefully have similar relationships to what you guys are describing and trying to, you know, be gentle and correcting and things like that and not just letting anything go just because the husband said this, but rather looking at the full scripture and knowing that he is also supposed to be following God as he is leading. And as we were saying, leading can look different ways. And as Ian was saying, different areas of the house, different areas of the ministry can be, you know, shepherded, guided, led by different individuals. And historically and in the Bible, the structure is shown that, yes, the man leads, but leading can look different ways. And that doesn't necessarily mean that he is taking over everything and the wife can't do anything. Some people look at it like the wife is supposed to just not do anything. But like David said, submission isn't necessarily silence. It's not necessarily you don't do anything, you just sit there. It is that we are both obeying God in our respective ways as we follow God and respecting each other.

Jeff Reed mm-hmm that that's so good um and on that note uh we're going to start a campaign to get wordy You know, I used to hang around seminaries, and, you know, there was a, just where I went to college, there was a seminary in town, and there used to be a joke that, like, girls would go to seminary to get a ring by spring, find some guy to marry and become the pastor's spouse, whatever, of a, you know, grab some guy and marry him. But what I love about what you're saying is that you're describing the ministry that you're doing and then trying to figure out how that that complements and how that fits in with with someone else your your future mate um you know that's something uh that amy and i we dated for so long that that to be honest like i do my ministry and she does she does hers we've never figure out how to do ministry together. I picked my way so early and she developed her path and what she's been working on later on. And what I do is so foreign to the average person. We never really got aligned that we're doing ministry together. I mean, the last time we probably did ministry together was I was in like youth ministry 20 plus years ago, and she would like lead my girls group together. And so there's something about trying to do that partnership together that I've really am inspired by your heart to try to find that place.

David's Daily Show Okay.

Jeff Reed How is the best way to love the other in the midst of the argument? Let's ask that question for you specifically. Like, how is the best way to love when things do get heated?

Ian Kirk Well, I think, you know, I have plenty of heated people come talk to me in the midst of their heatedness and their hurt and their anguish.

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

Ian Kirk And, you know, I can tell that if I say the wrong thing, I'm going to add fuel. rather than help. And generally, most of my response, or I should say, my internal dialogue is, is their response really about me? And 99% of the time I can say no. And then at that point, for me, that eliminates the emotional part on my end, and then I'm free, or I feel the freedom to love them where they're at and try to love them through their pain and their anxiety or whatever their issue is.

WordiGirl Yeah, I, I, um, I do actually, because, um, I've worked in customer service.

Jeff Reed Wordy girl, do you have much experience? Yeah, go ahead.

WordiGirl for like 11 years.

Jeff Reed Oh.

WordiGirl I work at a store still as a cashier. I've worked call center jobs. And this is something that I adopt on my own, but also every single job will say to us in training, if the customer's mad, they're not really mad at you. They're mad at what's going on. They're mad at the situation. And what you first have to do is dissociate yourself from the company so you don't feel targeted. Like I personally don't mind like saying, well, sorry, even if it's not my fault because I'm saying it on behalf of the company, but basically don't take it personally. And that's how Ian was saying,

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl if a person is upset, a lot of times they're just upset at what's going on. Sometimes they could have had a bad day and might have nothing to do with you. But when you like elevate yourself up there because they're up there, all that does is make them go higher. And sometimes you just have to, kind of like how you were saying, just speaking kind of low, you know, don't get elevated, don't get high, don't get like fussing and yelling, because all that's going to do is make them start talking louder and louder.

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl And just remembering that you're here to try to help them, you're here to love them, and you want to help them. You want to figure out what's going on, but sometimes they just might need an ear to listen. Sometimes they might need a shoulder to cry on. Sometimes they might soon, like you said, your wife would say, oh, I'm sorry. And realize, you know, okay, I got a little heated there, but yeah.

Jeff Reed yeah you know

WordiGirl And yeah, yeah, no, I was saying like, just staying at that level can sometimes help them

Jeff Reed to be honest oh I'm sorry go ahead I cut you off I'm sorry

WordiGirl to realize, like even in customer service, a lot of times I'll say, thank you for your patience a lot of times. And then they'll be like, oh, you're okay. at first they could be very annoyed and the line could be long but when they see that i'm just like saying thank you for your patience sorry about this and trying to do my best then they're like well you're working by yourself you know and they they realize they're being unreasonable

Jeff Reed yeah

WordiGirl and it's sometimes easier to just like show them by not going up there

Jeff Reed i um you know it's interesting you're talking about the the heated arguments and raising the voice and and it's it's a true story i i started talking low and she realized what i was doing and she started talking low and so instead of yelling you know i just joking about whisper fighting but we were literally just having a conversation and that actually that worked for a long period of time where we we weren't fighting we were just we were just talking about it and then there came a phase in in our marriage where we weren't we weren't talking like the stuff that bothered us we just swept it under the rug and just swept it under the rug and just swept it under rug and and And, you know, a couple of those little dust bunnies become big giant molehills, become, you know, mountain trash more worth of just stuff that's dumped. And the unfortunate thing is by not addressing it, when we actually did address it, all of a sudden it's just yelling at the top of the lungs because it's stuff that's, it's pent up.

WordiGirl It's an avalanche then.

Jeff Reed And, you know, it's funny in those moments, it's, in my life, it's been, okay, the thing that she's yelling me about doesn't, it's not the thing that she's really yelling at me about.

WordiGirl Yeah.

Jeff Reed Like, it's small, it's important, but it's small. But there's really 50 other things that are going on, and we've got to get through that. And to be honest, that's probably where I'm saying probably more than I should on air, but that's where we're really struggling right now is, is trying to not sweep stuff under the rug. You know, I'm, I'm like, Hey, I, in my life, I can, other than bad internet, ironically, I can live with anything. Just give me good internet. I'm fine. I'll, I'll find a way to make it work. And, you know, my wife isn't wired that way, and so we're trying to deal with some of those things right now and trying to figure it out. Love my wife. It's been an incredible ride-run journey, and sometimes we just need to figure out how to make things work a little better, and so that's where we are with some things right now. When I look at this at the end of 12, For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are inclined to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil. That seems like, for me, I'm still struggling with what is going on in this passage. We're talking about doing ministry, now we're talking about marriage, and then we're talking about don't eye for an eye, And now we're talking about God looking back at the righteous. Like, how does righteousness, how does holy, how does all of this fit together?

Ian Kirk Well, I think we actually have somewhat addressed that, just as we've talked about our particular situations, whether it's customer service, and I, having been there, I so feel that, you know, or relationships or ministry.

Jeff Reed *sniff*

Ian Kirk The reality is that we want, if we truly want the best for one another, we're not going to tear down one another. And, you know, Jesus does, you know, the second commandment, you know, love God, love your neighbor. And I think that's where this falls under that concept. Love your neighbor. Love the person that's in front of you is another way to look at the word neighbor. And I think if we take Jesus's words, then righteousness is loving your neighbor. And unrighteousness is, well, being a jerk.

Jeff Reed Any thoughts to go along with that wordy girl?

WordiGirl yeah i feel like it it can feel like this this scripture is a little bit all over the place but like ian was saying is basically i feel and what david was saying before he left it's just like about relationships and it covers a lot of different kinds of relationships in this one passage um but the mutual uh overarching you know theme i see is that we are supposed to be nice to each other. We're supposed to love each other as brethren.

Jeff Reed Yes.

WordiGirl We're supposed to be kind to each other. We're supposed to have compassion. And, you know, as you said, the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and His ears are inclined to their prayer. I know that, I think, is this the last verse in the scripture we're covering today? Yes. So the fun thing is that that scripture continues um down so we're probably going to talk about that next week um but i yeah this is not a

Jeff Reed That'll be next week.

WordiGirl that's not a an isolated thought um i think that it's the start of something that is basically saying that um it's giving us hope that even though we face adversity even though some people who do evil against us as we are trying to be righteous. As we were talking about a week or so ago, that sometimes it can be difficult trying to be righteous in the midst of people, you know, coming against us. And we might not see that instant gratification. We might not see that the results right away. We might feel like it's like doing nothing. We might feel like, you know, everybody's against us, which always we see that everyone, there were people against Jesus as well, that he had to do his ministry. He had to come. He had to die for the people who hated him and the very people who crucified him.

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl So I feel that this is a taste of it's going to continue the scripture. But it's basically saying that, yes, God hears us. He hears us. He hears us even if it doesn't seem like he does, even if we don't feel like he's answering. His ears are inclined to us and his eyes are on us.

Jeff Reed Awesome. Yes. His eyes are on us. ears are inclined to their prayers to our prayers and the but the face of the lord is against those who do evil um which is a good culturally it's a good reminder for once again the the people of that first peter that peter's writing to are in a different culture in a different environment in a godless environment they're refugees in the in these and so they're seeing evil all around them. And so, Peter's letter here is challenging them to stay righteous, to keep praying, to stay engaged with faith, to not do evil on evil, even if evil is put on them. Remember, these are also the same people that ran from Jerusalem as a result of the persecution of Stephen and others. And so they've seen evil, evil is literally impacting their lives. And so even in the midst of that turmoil, persecution, God is, or Peter's reminding them, the Bible's reminding them, keep praying, stay faithful, the eyes are on the righteous. So, all right, so we beat E all day long. A, apply. What are we taking away from this? How can we apply the scripture to our lives?

Ian Kirk I think at least in, you know, obviously we're still dealing with, in the U.S., we're still dealing with the ramifications, changes of the election, and I know other countries are

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

Ian Kirk dealing with their own ramifications in that area, but I still go back to Os Guinness' work. I want to say it's almost two decades ago now about being Christian in the public sphere. And I think that a lot of these relational

Jeff Reed Hmm.

Ian Kirk directives that Peter gives are just as applicable now in our cultural contexts, just because the world doesn't know how to not argue anymore. And being people of peace will be actually, in this case, the people who are talking very quietly in at least hopes and prayers that the temper of and tenor of things will tamp

Jeff Reed Awesome.

Ian Kirk down a little bit. And I, and I, and I'm actually, we're actively working on that with our, in our church is let's just tone, tone it down. Whether you agree with anybody or not is irrelevant. It's, how are you going to love them on the other side of it?

Jeff Reed Wordy girl, how are you applying this? Any takeaways for you in this?

WordiGirl yeah i feel the same uh just like not rendering evil for evil um don't be so focused on trying to get people back and i feel like also that last scripture we were looking at about how god um faces against the evil is basically meaning that like we don't have to do anything personally to

Jeff Reed Mm-hmm.

WordiGirl try to get back at somebody god will take care of that whatever he chooses to do even if we don't see it immediately even if it doesn't seem like oh well it looks like they're okay i i wish they got their due just desserts or whatever you know sometimes we feel so caught up in our own feelings but also we don't know what our role in their life is even though it may seem like somebody else won or something um them looking back at our interaction might bring them closer to god we don't know we don't know how god is using us in any situation in any relationship in any you know interaction that we have with anybody so that's why personally i like to continue just trying to love everybody and whatever my purpose in their life is praying that god uses it for for his good in his glory praying for them even if they seem like an enemy i do want them to eventually come

Jeff Reed Yeah.

WordiGirl to christ um and you know whatever i can do to help if i am if i feel it you know step away okay but that doesn't mean i should go get revenge that doesn't mean i should wish evil on them because they will get what they get but we can still pray for them and hope that their heart changes as well because that's ultimately what we should do

Jeff Reed Yep. And that, I mean, that kind of reverberates the Billy Graham quote, it's God's job to judge. It's the Holy Spirit's job to convict. It's our job to love. And so to just keep that in mind and check with as we're dealing with spouses, dealing with relationships, dealing with, you know, it's interesting, it's going from spouses all the way to people that would do you harm. Like, it is the full relationship dichotomy. It's both sides, the person you're most intimate with and your arch rival, so to speak, your mortal enemy on the other side, the person that wants to destroy you. And the relationship all the way through, don't repay evil for evil. You know, to quote the Beatles, all you need is love, which is a whole other thing. But all of a sudden, now I have the Beatles in my head. Thank you for that. Ian, I can't believe you brought the Beatles up in a Bible study, man. That's completely inappropriate. I just cannot believe that. Okay. And then, so that's apply, anything with respond, how can we, like, is there anything, any action steps or anything that you feel God's leading you to do off of this? don't bury stuff under the rug that that's going to be mine um in in relationships with with my wife with spouse with kids others like i i am i'm the type of person that's we'll make it work it's okay it's okay and and i do like i'm i'm going first i'm just saying i i need to be a little more open and he's like oh my gosh jeff is so open what does this actually mean it's really funny in in in work i'm very transparent in relationships i'm very um guarded very shielded and and so but yeah ian's like that doesn't make any sense but i promise you i i i'm a i'm a i am a wallflower when the camera's not on me that that's a 100 true story um ian uh wordy girl any takeaways for you guys, any reflections, anything to respond to God on this?

Ian Kirk I think for me is actually one of the things I last put in the chat, which is we shouldn't seek people's change of heart so that we win but so that they know jesus is lord and savior

Jeff Reed Yeah.

Ian Kirk um i think that's it was something that i something that wordy girl said and i that triggered that thought and i was like oh yeah i mean when we seek to evangelize people when we

Jeff Reed All right.

Ian Kirk seek to bring them to christ i think and obviously i i must feel it somewhere unconsciously at least because i never really would have recognized it beforehand is yes they came to know jesus i won and it's like no that that's that is the wrong um that's the wrong approach um so that's yeah that's that's what's that's what kind of bit me on this one

Jeff Reed yeah i mean we can go all the way back to the crusades uh you know they when people were literally murdered to to get them to believe in jesus that's that's not the that's not the ultimate goal uh but no i do appreciate what you're saying there um wordy girl and any takeaways for today?

WordiGirl Yeah, just, yeah, just, um, continuing to, I, I, I'm, um, and my life personally, what I'm going to try to do is to continue, you know, loving and like, you know, no saying sometimes we are not outwardly thinking it necessarily, but there may be a subconscious part of us that's like, Hmm, I want to win. And that's this kind of, once you hear that, just put it in check, like, remember, that's not what it's about. So, um, yeah, it's not always about being right.

Jeff Reed yeah

WordiGirl It's not always about winning, it's about Christ. And it's about loving the other person. So I'm going to remember that as well going forward.

Jeff Reed it's hard you know in border girl as you being a content creator like it's there's a there's a hard metric around metrics it's it's a hard you know hey let me let me celebrate hundreds and thousands and ten thousands of views and you know, what that means and vanity metrics and things like that. Sometimes in digital, it's very easy to get lost in the wins and not the people in the faces, looking at the numbers and not the souls. And so, as a digital missionary, I do think that's interesting. And I know in digital world, there's lots of, it's very easy to find people with different opinions and it's very easy to to get into arguments um to to create a digital eye for an eye type of thing it was funny there's there's a meme a video uh like one of these gif things or whatever you see online and it's it's two dogs just barking at each other through a fence through a gate and uh the camera backs away and two little dogs like pugs just going at it like like they do chihuahuas his chihuahuas two chihuahuas going nuts and the camera backs up and the gate starts to to swing so the two you know chihuahuas that aren't uh they're not separated by the gate they're actually able to to like touch each other and as soon as the gate disappears both chihuahuas are like oh hey how are you like no fight whatsoever the fight's the fight's gone uh and so it's like yeah it's easy to fight when when you're separated but when the when digitally as digital missionaries I think we're called to love, even through the camera, take that clean, don't make that weird. And so, for us, it's like, how can we keep that love in place? How can we echo holiness? How can we echo all of this so that God is seeing us as we're being holy and as we're inviting others to be holy in that. I do believe, you know, as we talk about digital missionaries, and this is something like, Jason, this is a whole other conversation we'll probably get into next week. For me, it's the, you know what, we're going to wait for it next week. I am not going to get into it. I know where we're going next week. I was going to open it up, and if I open that can now, we'll be here for another 30 minutes, which means my internet's going to fail another five times. But we're going to wrap up today for session five, which has been 1 Peter, first part of chapter three. We'll review the second part of chapter three next week. If you want to jump on the study, DME on Discord, or find me in general chat on the Church Digital. If you're not following us on Discord, it's discord.thechurch.digital. Discord.thechurch.digital, that'll get you into that. Would love to meet you, connect with you, and you're welcome to be part of the studies.

WordiGirl thank you for hosting as always

Jeff Reed Yes, appreciate y'all. See you next week.

WordiGirl have a blessed one everyone